How to market Prenuvo, the full body scan used by Hollywood A-listers

Hey, it’s Marc. A social media post last year by Kim Kardashian not only sparked controversy for touting the supposed merits of full-body scanning. The Instagram photo of Kardashian next to a full-body scan machine also triggered a national conversation around the value of screening as a facet of proactive care in general. But the photo – and her accompanying endorsement of medical diagnostics firm Prenuvo – was just the beginning. The company gained a good deal of brand awareness from the plug, which Prenuvo said was unsolicited. And it has a long way to go to educate people on what’s in it for them to make full-body MRI scans part of their healthcare routine. The views expressed on this episode are those of our guests and don’t necessarily reflect the views of mmm or Haymarket media us why we started the conversation Raja. Why don’t you introduce yourself to our audience? And for those who are unfamiliar give them a sense of what per Nouveau is as good. Hijack. So, my name is Raja. I look after marketing PR design at Purdue and come from a fairly varied background jumping from Consulting to a significant time at Apple where it looked after initially the mobile and digital transformation in the retail stores and then got super lucky with being on the team that created the go to market strategy for the Apple watch and then did my own start off for a while went to Paris Bill the fashion house and then after a series of wonderful coincidences and ended up at prenovo about a year and a half ago, and it’s been wonderful and then prenovo itself. So hopefully a lot of your listeners will have Heard about us a little bit at least what we do we offer the leading whole body scan in the market for MRI screening for proactive care. And so what that means is you go in for an hour long scan and we look at your whole body as a whole our Radiologists review the images. They give you contextualized findings and explanations and potential recommendations about what to do about them. And really what we’re trying to do with all that is flipping how we think about our own health care in terms of instead of waiting for things to go wrong and try to figure out why that is and fix them just getting ahead of understanding our health in the first place in a better way and then keeping an eye out for things that went caught earlier. We don’t have to ideally we don’t have to even require medical intervention or if we do it’s at a much lower level of emotional Financial. Cost and as well just impact on our lives. So we’re really our focused on a mission to serve move away from that sick care Paradigm that I think we’re all used to and Healthcare unfortunately. And and getting everyone or as fast as we can into this sort of proactive Healthcare that we dream of and I want to pick up on one of the words that he brought up there which is proactive which I know is kind of the impetus behind this web series that prune was rolled out talk to us a little bit about the web series itself in terms of how you’re approaching content what the mission of it is. Yeah. So the the web series it’s called let’s talk about beep. I’m your host Iris up here on the panel spaceship on this show. We dive into subjects that no one else is talking about nuclear resonance frequency the prostate whole body MRI scans. Well, I operate in stages and we started on a basis of talking directly to patients. And the idea is to put the power and agency of Healthcare in the patient’s hands. And so that has always been part of our ethos and the more we interact and listen and learn from our patients the more we saw the need or the opportunity rather. To tackle Healthcare topics in a way that is relatable to people that people can understand and that they feel compelled to either learn more or want to incorporate in their own life and health care routines. And so when we initially start thinking about let’s talk about the idea was how do we take complex science and simplify, but without mastering it and that’s really like an underlying principle of all of our marketing at Peru. It’s we are a medical practice. We all so are a medical brand and that involves speaking to a lot of different audiences with out really trading off the quality and the quality of the information shared. And the sort of complexity of the science behind it. So we just launched our first four few episodes It’s still in Fairly very early exploration very early mode where we’re thinking about what the next episode. Be or what? They should tackle. But yeah, so the main idea is how do we start creating these conversations about health in a in a new kind of way and in a way that involves and includes a lot more people than just folks who? Might require years and years of training to know what we’re talking about. And that is ultimately the difference in terms of talking to hcps you’re talking to Consumers and I’m curious from your perspective because you know, when when this was pitched along to me, I had heard of purva before we had covered them in terms of you know, the business model and some people moves, but I’d also seen you know celebrities using your product too. If Kim Kardashian comes to mind among others. I’m curious how much you’ve had to make up in terms of raising awareness with consumers that may be already familiar like oh, yeah. That’s that product that X celebrity has used as a saying like, you know, maybe there are people that are completely unfamiliar and it’s like we’re starting from the ground up. How is that work from a marketing perspective? You know in general it’s it’s all about meeting people where they are. And so there’s always that first step of yeah. What is for Nouveau? What do you all do? Like, what what do I need to be interested in like or what’s in it for me? And I think we’re incredibly grateful about the sort of Groundswell of Word of Mouth that has accompanied for Nouveau in the past couple years and and it all really starts with with our focus on providing the best product and experience to our patients. That’s really the core of everything and and once they experience it it becomes much more real for them what we are about so that’s how it all starts. And and that’s why you mentioned Kim Kardashian you mentioned other parties. I also don’t want to ignore a lot of other word of mouth that happens every day with people who experience our scan. experience first-hand the value they can get from it and then tell others about that positive experience and so on and so forth and so you so when someone has a bigger platform to share that word they are doing it and they’re doing it out of pure Goodwill they’re doing it because Whether it’s me or Kim Kardashian or you we all care about health, we are all exposed to health issues and and and we can all benefit from learning more about our own health. And so so that’s that’s a little bit the the overall umbrella and but you asked a little bit you asked about the different parts of the journey for people. And so once they hear about for nuva, hopefully they’ll be curious about learning about us. the and we accompany people through the process. So before they even get to the clinic when they get to the clinic what happens after the scan and then with let’s talk about we were like, let’s tackle a larger umbrella of topics that don’t necessarily are direct marketing for things that renewal does or or trying to help people be aware or understand what we do but also serve something that benefits the greater good Beyond sort of our business scope or beyond their direct business intent. And so that’s why there’s information in these episodes that to be honest like renewable or not. Anyone would benefit from learning about or discussing and debating or asking their doctors about it or talking with their friends about it or their loved ones and Up. And so that’s why like the the the the the part of the Journey of these episodes could be anywhere could be before you’d heard about prenuvo and all of a sudden you learn about why taking care of prostate health matters or you have heard about prenuvo, but you didn’t know the extent of what we’re doing and what we’re tackling and that’s part of what the brain and muscle episode focuses about it’s it’s really about our medical research. And it doesn’t really tie directly to our scan right now, but there’s a lot of there’s more than 30 papers at this point and apps that have been accepted from our AI research team in collaboration with other medical Minds at academic institutions that are really expanding the the under the insights and understanding for the medical community of that front. And so we take that and we translate it into a way that people can also relate to on a daily basis. So the fact that we all know for example, that smoking is bad. And and we we hopefully all know that drinking alcohol is doesn’t have necessarily the the greatest impact on our bodies and and we all make personal decisions every day about these things. It’s it’s that I think very few people want to live their life in a bubble and and do everything perfectly. But when you when you when you have research that shows for example that things I’m doing right now at mice and my age 41 might and probably will affect my brain health later on in a few days. and when I learned that and when I see that it really forces me to sort of take a pause and think about this. It’s like yeah like I could I could make a few different changes in my lifestyle today. That might not be too hard to make and avoid much bigger things later in life that that will be much more difficult to tackle is actually when it comes to brains people act. Which is very interesting when you when when you’re taking that sort of Patient First perspective into the healthcare and medical space is I think we all experience things that our doctors tell us and every year we’re like, yeah, I know but I’m sorry I couldn’t do this last year or or I didn’t get to it or like but what we’re noticing is really like there are certain areas of Health that people that tend to drive people to action faster. and and most people want to preserve their brain health as long as they can and so that’s just one example of how we took a very like a set of academic medical papers and translated those into a five-minute episode that makes it very real and clear for people that hey these are some lifestyle decisions that we make every day and this is what the research is starting to show so your call on how much or how little you want to do something about it. I appreciate the background there. I want to ask a follow-up question because like you said this isn’t just a fully branded exercise. You have episodes that are more talking about conditions are being proactive with your health. How do you then go about you know, determining the success of a video series like this or even how the content the content that you’re going to cover or how that’s translated over and communicated to the consumer because I can imagine if it was just hey, we’re promoting these prenovo scans and then you see an uptick and in orders or requests for appointments, but when it’s something that’s a lot more Broad in the health category. How do you determine like, oh, yeah. This is something that we’ve actually accomplished. Yes, so I want to step back a little bit here because I think even in your question there’s an assumption and correct me if I’m wrong. But it is something that every single effort in marketing needs to vary immediately. See impact on Revenue. I mean mostly time that we talk to marketers. It’s actually when we’re talking to Farmer biotech Brands. It’s we want to see script lift. We want to see more of our product and everything. So I’m curious about it from your end and I’m not saying that’s not what we want to see so but I think when when we step back a little bit, I think the biggest mission of marketing in general is to tell the best story we can about what we’re doing and the impact of our work on people’s life. And especially in healthcare. It’s real impact on people’s lives as you see it visually every day we hear back from patients. And so there’s a lot that we do that are more sort of direct conversion focused levers in our marketing playbook in this case. It’s there there’s I really believe in in stepping back as a marketer and thinking about all the different ways that. that we could sort of not just bring awareness and conversion to something we’re selling but create the whole ecosystem for how people think about what we’re doing and the category and the space that we’re trying to change and what we’re doing is something that requires very big systemic change in the whole Healthcare System. It’s a pretty pretty challenging and daunting mission. And we can’t do that without. Without tackling the space as a whole without thinking about health and health education and and bringing about research and topics for people and so this is one of those initiatives where you have to take a little bit of a leap of faith. And you have to say we’re going to we’re going to start somewhere. And we’re going to see how it goes and we’re going to learn from it. And then we’re going to evolve it and keep refining it as we go based on what we learn. And so I will tell you very frankly. I deliberately don’t have or don’t want any conversion goals from the let’s talk about B. effort the the real metrics for Success here is how much can we reach and getting engagement from people that these topics and and like expand that conversation in a way where people Don’t feel they were people can have that access to their knowledge about their own Healthcare and bring it back to their own cases, whether it’s from insights. They get from our preneurs can or other insights. They get from other health insights or or routines. They have and sort of see it in the bigger picture of So for us this is this specific initiative is more an investment in. Exploring that larger ecosystem and systemic change and how we start sort of putting Sparks here and there to drive that ground swell movement that we need and that we can’t do alone in terms of shifting from sick to reactive to reactive care. I’m curious from your perspective because like I said, I knew about the brand before this, you know interview was even pitched to me and I think there are a lot of people that again see celebrities using your product or even just see I did a cursory Google search before we went into this interview in the first things that pop up with preneurs always the price tag, it’s always the you know, this it cost this much to have a full body scan, but there is a sense that it has generated some sort of conversation about. Hey, I would like to know what’s going on in my entire body. I’d like to be able to get that status check. What do you make in terms of where preneurs stands in the healthcare ecosystem now? I it’s obviously not just a novelty like, oh you can do a full body scan. Isn’t that cool? It’s got this this larger focus on proactive health. So I’m curious from from a marketing perspective where you think the brand stands maybe where there’s room to grow. Yeah, I think right now the brand is in a place where thankfully we have at least a lot of name recognition to start and not so humble brag on that front. But I in the past year and a half like the the buzz and awareness around for itself really created or triggered fairly National conversation around practice here in general and screening in general and and we’re very happy to be leading the charge on that. It doesn’t stop there. That’s just the beginning. and and what part of that is, what do we expect this Mission and this product to do in our lives and the first step of that is understanding the value of having a baseline into your health already increasing the knowledge of what you know about your body and on average most of us don’t know much about our body at all. And so step one is really how how do you make the case for people to even come in and try it? And then step two. They see it themselves. They see the value of themselves and what the insights they get the actions they can take from it step two is really creating that sort of feeling of I want to incorporate this into my health routine. Like you don’t go. We don’t go to the deadline. Maybe some people go to the dentist. And what’s the decade but in general recommended is we go to the dentist fairly like regularly. In order to actually prevent things from getting worse if we if we don’t take care of them on a regular basis and I think and we do that for example with with our regular checkups Health checkups with our primary care doctors if we’re lucky enough to have one. Uh, and so pranava is part of that that thinking but taking the tools that we currently have at our disposal and offering something completely different in scope and impact in terms of what the patients themselves can get. And so from that perspective. I would say as a brand we are in a good place in terms of awareness of Who We Are. In a better place in terms of awareness of what we do. And we have a long ways to go to keep making the case and keep educating people on. What what’s in it for them to make it part of their health care routine. And and this is not just on on us and on patients themselves. We do a lot of effort and work with the healthcare provider Community with the medical community whether it’s through research or through Partnerships for with doctors who are their patients to us. And so we’re again we’re looking at the system as a whole and at the center of our approach is the patient always and all around that is how do we bring all the other levers of the healthcare ecosystem including doctors including medical institutions Healthcare Health Systems just sort of altogether get to where we need to be. Hope for you sooner rather than later. Raja I’ve really appreciate you being on the show and talking about one the video series but also the larger marketing goal around prenuvo and where the brand is going. I want to give you the final say here because you obviously have a background I think is unique compared to what our audience primarily are. There are a lot of industry lifers and people that come up either through medical marketing agencies or work on behalf of farm and biotech Brands you having the experience of worked at Apple and working in a fashion house these kind of more forward facing I would say to a certain extent more Progressive not politically but Progressive in terms of how they view marketing towards consumers. I imagine they have to influence how you look at medical marketing. So I want to give you the final word in terms of if there’s any sort of advice that you would pass along to our audience where it’s like maybe it’s a different way to think or a different way to try and interact with consumers anything that comes to mind on that front. Oh, yeah a few hours. Thank you for calling that out. I think. I actually personally don’t like don’t consider myself a marketer because I do think like the general. The general perception of what marketing does has become very limited over the last decade or so, I think like we the 2010s I think every marketer could agree that the 2010s were sort of are the Golden Age of Performance Marketing. and I have a very admitted public bias that Performance Marketing is only one of many Tools in in the larger. Sort of things that we can do in terms of educating our Target audiences and making the case for them. And and one of the things that I that I enjoy in terms of the shifting tides of how much Performance Marketing can be relied on is that marketers now are thinking again more. I think it’s like it’s it’s like okay if this is one funny story, I went into a situation once in one of my jobs and it’s very clear that all that all our email Communications were not good. And I spoke with the email Performance Marketing team and the reaction the natural default reaction was well, this is what tested best. And it it kept having that cycle until I was like, well, can I see at least the creative you tested? and when you put 10 or 20 or 30 or 50 creatives to work at test and the creative itself is mediocre. Of course, you’re going to some mediocre options gonna test better. And I think this is this is part of the difference. I don’t know if it’s different or unique to me. But at least how I approach marketing is really not having a Playbook not having rules really going in and starting with who are we talking with? And how do we meet them there? And whether you mentioned you mentioned Apple I would spend in many of my colleagues which spend at least a day every quarter in Apple Stores because interacting with our customers immediately was the best way to understanding the impact of our work, but also learn and get ideas to have to do things better. and same thing here a lot of things are different obviously in healthcare than in a consumer product company But the thing that is not different and never changes is speaking to people understanding them. I spend a lot of time at our clinics just chatting with with patients and you mentioned the price you mentioned some some other potential perceptions or blockers for people. And I ask that patients that question the clinic like sometimes I like why did you come in? Like how is it like do you think it’s expensive or do you think like and A lot of them are not wealthy people. They’re not I mean that I want to be acknowledging the fact that 2500 bucks is not a very easy expensive for for everyone. But I also I’m heart warmed by the fact that a lot of our patients are making these very conscious trade-offs and investing in their health and I’m here in LA and I often get the answer of well instead of going out for a fancy dinner once a month with my friends. I decided that I’m going to put that money towards a preneurs. And and it’s it’s not an uncommon or unusual example and insight that we get and so back to your question and to try to close out on a answer. I would say whether in healthcare or anywhere else. Really telling the best story we can and beating me people where we are is a function of understanding the product very deeply understanding what are the channels of how we are interacting with people. Understanding The Experience we’re providing people making sure that all of that is the best we can product channels experience. And only when those are all aligned and lined up that you can think of what is the story and what’s that cohesive message that you send out in what people might consider this sort of true. What marketing is about which is the area of communications and marketing and brand and PR and all that type of stuff. So for me, all of these things are just an outcome of insights and experiences and developing a product and a place with that people love that people see a lot of value in that people understand and that they want to tell other people about Roger I really appreciate you being on the show here. I think this has been one of the more intriguing conversations that we’ve had and obviously being able to offer your insights that hopefully our audience are able to glean some takeaways and some ways that maybe they can change around the way that they approach their respective Health Brands. So I appreciate you being on the show and hopefully is there more developments and campaigns down the line from prenovo. We can have you back on here. Thank you for having me Jack. It was really fun trending this week in trending we’re gonna start off with our first pair of stories a little bit of Olympic Healthcare recap. The first one being Ariana Ramsey who is one of the bronze medalists for the US sevens rugby team who was amazed and went on tiktok talking about the free healthcare options in Europe and this kind of coincides with a lot of different conversations. People have been having about our Healthcare System, especially in the lead-up the election she put up a viral tiktok video talking about getting a pair of free prescription sunglasses. Her quote was like what Lesha you were out of country last week in Europe. One of those things where it’s like. Oh, yeah, like the rest of the world does have access to free healthcare and this is kind of putting a shine on it in a way where it’s like. Oh, yeah. There is a way outside of how the US does it. Yeah. I was in Europe with some of my college friends and actually one of the main topics of discussion was the fact that in Europe, you know, there’s things like free healthcare and you know, more vacation time and stuff like that. We were just kind of comparing it to our lives in America, but you know, I took a look at Ariana Ramsey’s tiktok and some of her videos about the free healthcare she experienced in Paris and sort of how mind blowing it was for her and We even forget like how mind blowing it would be to just walk into a doctor’s office and not have to worry about insurance and whether you know that doctor takes your insurance, you know, she received a pap smear and eye exam. She got a dentist appointment and a new pair of glasses while she was at the Olympic Village and she jokingly asked the people of France to accept her as one of their own so she can get free healthcare in addition to getting a bronze medal too. Yeah, and you know, I think this kind of touches on you know, the conversation we’ve had many times before in this podcast about health care in America, you know, we’ve covered those social stories about Mr. Beast covering People’s Health care costs. And why do people have to rely on Mr. Beast to fund their surgeries or GoFundMe means to fund getting basic health care needs met and I think Ramsey really kind of highlighted that and I think this also kind of Is part of a bigger Trend I noticed during the Olympics we’ve seen a lot of Olympic Stars take to tiktok and Instagram and basically become viral Stars overnight and I think that’s a unique aspect of this Olympics because in at least in my memory, it’s the first time of the public has been able to get such an inside look into what athletes are experiencing at the Olympics things that tick tock on Instagram. So, you know, they’ve been talking about things like body image and free healthcare and the food they be they’ve been eating so there’s been a lot of like interesting Healthcare takeaways in general from the Olympics. I think that’s been unique compared to previous Olympics and that really also stood out to me. Yeah, definitely and it’s one of those things where you know, the past two were definitely impacted so severely by the covid pandemic and I think that even affected how athletes approach like how they were communicating at the games like not say the tiktok Instagram weren’t around at that point, but there was just a different vibe this felt like the first quote unquote normal one and it’s kind of amazing, you know, I Looked up the Ariana Ramsay is 24 years old like, you know you presume that somebody in their early twenties on one of their first ever times over to Europe and it’s just truly culture shock and the idea that you can get all these free healthcare services. She’d even said in one of her tiktoks that she is now a free Healthcare Advocate and you know, this is gonna be my new fight for Action free healthcare in America. I think it speaks to a lot of things regardless of where people stand on the political Spectrum as to you know, when you see another system working as functionally as that is and then you have the backing of Olympic medalists, you know gives it a different a different shine if I think yeah, absolutely. And the other thing too that came out of the Olympics, we’re not going to talk about, you know, a handful of people getting sick in the send River who could have predicted that they would be cases of E, coli and people vomiting. There was no alleles who was won the 100 meter dash. He won the bronze and the 200 meter dash a couple days later, but then he collapsed and needed to be wheelchair off afterwards and it was later disclosed that he had tested positive for covid prior to the race run this race and then had to be wheeled off. And you said he won something. He had won the 100 meter a few days before, you know, he had come out there and he’s a very energetic Personnel like him out there. He’s like bouncing around trying to Hype up the crowd and then he has to be wheeled off wearing a mask people as speculate online. Like why were you wearing a mask obviously came out of the covid and a lot of people I think kind of took that message that happens a lot in sports. Like he just grind through injury you just persevere or whatever but there was an opinion piece that was in stat news today talking about how basically not to manage your health. At the Olympics and how covid is something that obviously is still being researched but has such an effect on your cardiovascular system and your respiratory system. He already had asthma so you have another compounding underlying Factor. So it was interesting thing to see you know that on the one hand you think you kind of have the sports brain where it’s like, yeah, like rise above anything you have doctor saying like don’t do that. yeah, well, it was kind of similar to when we were talking about Simone biles and how she decided to kind of take a step away when she was dealing with her mental health issues and the entire public and everyone in the Sports World kind of like bashed her for it and said no you have to push through like that’s a sign of a real Champion. So I’m sure that he felt some pressure even though he had a covid diagnosis which you would think that would slow you down if you’re running but he decided to push through I guess. Yeah, and you’re I think your points so well taken because there were people that even and I don’t know if you saw it online and stuff but like Simone obviously came back one of a bunch of Golds one some other medals and there were people saying like, oh, at least she didn’t quit this time and it still shows just how far we have to go in terms of the conversation around mental health. It’s like even when you come back and you prioritize yourself and you accomplished what you set out to do you still have can’t win with with some people I know and it’s it’s just so frustrating I think and that’s all so just the dangers that come along with social media, but that also leads us into what you can see as the good side of social media for our second segment here. The cdc’s decision to tell doctors to better manage IUD pain that came after a social media outcry there was reporting in the New York Times about women going on tiktok and talking about how painful their IUD insertion can be and how doctors often underestimate a woman’s pain this goes into some of the issues. So we’ve seen around biases in medical research and kind of that institutionalized gender biases. It was interesting. And unless I wanted to throw it over you first because you had made a good point before we started the recording that you know, whether this is kind of a chicken or an egg situation did the CDC response seen that social media outcry. I mean, I saw a bunch of people posting on their Instagram stories and then the policy, you know change the next day whether that was related to that or you know, if the cdc’s even monitoring social media, I’m curious your thoughts on it because I you’re so well entrenched in terms of seeing how health is discussed online. Yeah, I mean it was an interesting point that you mentioned, you know, the new guidelines sort of came shortly after a lot of these videos went viral and it’s I sort of started wondering I’m wondering if the CDC is like becoming more tuned in to tiktok. We know that it’s been a large source of Health misinformation. But as this shows it’s also kind of an inside look into how patients are experiencing Healthcare and specifically provides a platform for like more marginalized voices women and people of color to be able to speak candidly about what’s working from them and not working from them in healthcare. And I think this is an example of that. I’m not sure if the CDC, you know use if these these tiktok videos was the sort of moment that spurred them to make these guidelines or not, but there is a connection I think And I you know, I reviewed some of the videos they’re pretty scary and harrowing because these women actually recorded themselves in the doctor’s office when the IUD was being placed in them and they were screaming out in pain and it’s like difficult to watch and you know, there was a study published last year where Duke researchers examined videos on tiktok under the hashtag IUD and found that among the videos 96.8% highlighted pain and negative side effects linked to the IUD placement. That’s a pretty significant amount of negative videos around the issue. So I think it’s a welcome move that the CDC has updated the guidelines. It’s the first time they’ve created more specific guidelines since 2016. It’s aimed to sort of help health care providers figure out more personalized pain management options for women. Like when they should be applying local anesthetics or sedation and of course every woman is going to have a different experience with it. Some will experience little pain others will have excruciating pain. So it really does need to be a personalized experience and I’m hoping that the CDC guidelines will kind of help us move in that in that direction. I want to ask you a follow-up question, but just wanted to know something too that you’ve written a lot about the cdc’s change in how they’re approaching messaging after kind of having these fumbles during the covid-19 pandemic that really put the Integrity of the organization at stake and really hasn’t been clawed back with a bunch of different groups. It is interesting to kind of see this as oh, we heard your concerns and we’re taking some really proactive immediate actions. So it is good to see on that step. But I want to ask you just on a personal level. I mean, obviously you have girlfriends you have, you know female relatives in your lives and it seems like this is something I’m sitting here as a white guy that can’t necessarily relate. It seems like this is something both on. The IUD front but also just in healthcare in general this idea that doctors aren’t necessarily listening or accounting for your experience. Is that something that you’ve heard in different conversations just within your own personal life as well. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think the kind of underlying theme Here is that women aren’t listened to you when they express that they’re in pain or that they’re having trouble with something. A lot of times women’s concerns are dismissed. I mean that’s happened to me in the doctor’s office. I’ve had pain chronic pain concerns that have been dismissed as anxiety or being in my head and that’s like a very common thing. I’ve heard from a lot of women like most women to be completely honest have had experiences like that in the doctors office and when you look at the research that you know, they’re just isn’t enough research in women’s health. I mean, that’s something that we’ve written about as well. There’s just sort of a continues to be a lack of understanding in you know women’s pain and Healthcare Providers are Pretty kind of stuck in their ways and are quick to dismiss women way more often than they do men in these situations and I think there’s still a long way to go. But I think that’s why I’m I’m hopeful that you know, this move is is one example that we’re stepping in the right direction, but we do need a lot more research in the area to kind of better understand how women experience pain and experience things in the doctor’s office. Yeah, and then 96% number that you brought up earlier from the Duke study does kind of indicate that this there’s a reason why it was such a galvanizing force is like it’s something that almost all women have gone through and it continues to be a plague on our Health Care system because there isn’t that much research because maybe some a lot of acp’s are set in their ways and that has trickle-down effects on patient outcomes though. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I appreciate you coming in here and talking about both the Olympics and what we saw in this social media phenomenon last week and maybe they’ll be an insight into how the CDC is going to operate going forward. I want to thank our listeners for joining us on this week’s episode of the mmm podcast. We have a wonderful episode next week. I encourage you all to listen to we’ll be joined by neurodivergent advertisers and Advocates Rachel Lowenstein and Kelly Garland. See you then. That’s it for this week. The mmm podcast is produced by Bill Fitzpatrick Gordon failure LeSabre Shack and Jack O’Brien. Our theme music is by cesium Zone rate review and follow every episode wherever you listen to podcasts new episodes out every week and be sure to check out our website. Mmm hyphen.com for the top news stories and farmer marketing. To that end, Prenuvo just rolled out a series of web videos designed to build on that awareness. And earlier this year, the company said it launched a 10-year outcomes study. But it’s going to take a lot of work to get the healthcare provider community on-board. Prenuvo, and companies like it, charge between $1,000 to $2,500 for their scans. Firms claim their scans can identify tumors, aneurysms, musculoskeletal problems and other health issues earlier so patients can get treatment faster. But their assertions aren’t fully backed by physicians. This week on the show, Jack O’Brien speaks with Raja Haddad, chief marketing officer at Prenuvo, about how it’s working to expand the conversation about full-body scanning and his marketing goals for the brand. And speaking of national conversations sparked by social media, for our weekly Trend segment, Jack and Lecia Bushak will discuss what Olympic medal-winner Ariana Ramsey’s experience with free healthcare at the Paris Olympics says about the high costs of U.S. healthcare, as well as a CDC medical directive about managing women’s IUD pain, which reportedly comes after many women posted videos documenting their distress during the procedure.