People have become more agnostic to healthcare brands. Lacek Group’s Tess MacGibbon, director of thought leadership and healthcare, tells Jack O’Brien about opportunities for regaining loyalty among health brands, from clinical trials and biopharma companies to payers and health systems. Lecia Bushak discusses the White House’s new plan to tackle the deadly crisis posed by people overdosing on xylazine combined with fentanyl. And the new Threads-Twitter rivalry, and its possible implications for medical marketing, headlines our social media segment. Music by Sixème Son.

Note: The MM+M Podcast uses speech-recognition software to generate transcripts, which may contain errors. Please use the transcript as a tool but check the corresponding audio before quoting the podcast.

Hey, it’s Marc…

Whether you’re talking about pizza, electric vehicles or booking a flight online, consumers tend to be pretty sensitive to cost when making purchases. That is, unless brand loyalty comes into play. 

A huge part of brands’ value proposition is the safety they provide in chaotic times. That’s one reason why, during the pandemic, the reputations of many of the big drugmakers improved. When a crisis hits, people rally to security and what’s safe.

Indeed, the brand loyalty dynamic applies to pharma and biotech brands, which often need to rely on technology to deliver more personalized data that can provide a convenient, appropriate experience for patients. 

Even before the COVID-19 pandemic, healthcare companies of all sorts were grappling with the effects of consumerism and how to modify their operations in order to keep pace with the experiences people have with other sectors like retail, automotive or financial services.

Borrowing the strategies and lessons learned from other industries could pay significant dividends for healthcare brands in the long run, but that pivot needs to happen sooner than later.

Our guest this week is Tess MacGibbon, director of thought leadership and healthcare at The Lacek Group, an Ogilvy Experience company. My colleague Jack O’Brien spoke with MacGibbon about loyalty programs in healthcare, what executives need to know about putting these processes in place and what can be learned from other industries.

And Lecia’s here with a health policy update..

Hey Marc, today I’ll discuss the White House’s new plan to tackle xylazine – a veterinary tranquilizer known as “tranq” that’s fueling the drug overdose crisis.

And Jack, what’s on tap for the healthcare social media front?

This week, we’re treading on Threads, Twitter community notes come for President Biden’s healthcare record and the FDA is asked to investigate Logan Paul’s caffeinated energy drink.

Hello, and welcome to the mmm podcast. My name is Jack O’Brien. I’m the digital editor at M&M and I’m joined by a very special guest today test Matt Gibbon director of thought leadership and Health Care at the Lasik group and oglebee experience company test.

You doing today?

I’m doing very well Jack. It’s great to be here.

It’s great to have you on the show. And I know that the conversation that we’re gonna have here is largely focused around loyalty and how it extends into the healthcare realm. I want to start off by asking you about the white paper that you just published in terms of loyalty programs and how Healthcare companies are going about pursuing those you kind of give us a high level overview. And then maybe we can drill down as into some specifics.

Yeah, you know, when I first started the Lasik group within about three months I said, oh my gosh, you’re such an opportunity for health care, which is where I spent my previous 20 plus years and really what I’m addressing is there’s opportunity across every single sector from B2B to see pair provider Pharma biotech. Even Healthcare retail to adapt loyalty strategies that have for decades been very successful outside of the healthcare realm and bring customers closer to your brand.

That brand loyalty and that brand Love by layering in value benefits recognition and personalization appreciating your customers who met whomever. They may be your business and they’re loyalty. They’re continued business. It’s a customer retention application that is super effective.

It’s so interesting you’re talking about something that I think a lot of people outside the healthcare realm might regard is just kind of common sense you want to build that rapport with your customers, but obviously Health Care always a little bit slower to the game than other Industries. I’m curious when it when it comes to putting in some of these strategies what have been maybe some of the best practices or most effective approaches to taking on some of these loyalty programs outside of Healthcare inside of healthcare.

Maybe we start with outside and then maybe some that have translated into Healthcare,

You know, the best strategies and programs outside of healthcare are ones that bring the customer closer engages them Beyond a transaction, right? It’s keeping that dialogue. I in between those transactions and today’s loyalty is more emotional than ever. It’s experience it is Personalization it is surprising and delighting your customers. Every loyalty program has to have three critical elements. And that is they have to have a compelling value proposition. They have to be financially feasible and operationally viable and when those three pieces come together, that’s how you build a successful loyalty program? It starts with customer insights looking at where your customers are. Where do they want to hear from you? I know you had a podcast recently about that Omni Channel Marketing in healthcare, and that’s really important hitting, you know hitting.

People where they are in the moment with relevant and compelling content offers Etc. And for instance the price and Delight is an element of most loyalty programs that lets your customers know in surprising and delighting ways that you appreciate them. It might be a gift. It may be an exclusive experience. It’s really important for loyalty programs to be truly differentiated from their competitors. Because that’s the sameness can cloud people’s appreciation for your offers.

I think it’s interesting too. Just how that can translate into healthcare because again, we have a very competitive industry on our hands where hospitals are fighting for, you know, their share of patients. Certainly Pharma groups want to be able to reach the right patients the same way that they’re competitors do too. I’m curious from your perspective. Maybe what has translated the best into Healthcare if they’re in the examples in terms of loyalty programs or some of the world so you may have.

Yeah, you know it’s different across sectors, you know, I would say some of probably the top performing loyalty strategies in healthcare is on the payer side Humana go365 incentivizes and rewards healthy behaviors actions in the community and prevention, right and you accrue rewards as you complete these things and they were in for you know, they ranked number one in Foresters pair report and another successful one is Kaiser permanent days. There are a provider and a pair.

And they have been rewarding their plan members, but you know $500 per adult in the household and you can get that by way of a gift card or a statement credit every year. And both both organizations have very high favorable ratings and loyalty from their members. One interesting finding and I know is in the infographic that came along with the white paper that you authored and this will probably upset some of the people in our audience is the fact that one third of healthcare consumers don’t have any preference when it comes to Brands and that’s growing. Can you talk about that Trend because I talk to a lot of leaders especially on the the marketing side. They’re like, we want more brand loyal to we want people to identify with, you know, such and such brand and they might be troubled to hear that.

Yeah. It was an interesting study in I think it was 2018 one third as Healthcare consumers had no brand preference to a health system and by 2021 that had grown north of 36% And so one of the reasons is people don’t feel like a person they feel like a number right? They’re lacking that personal experience. They you know, there’s another study that showed someone would switch providers because the office staff and reception was rude. I think the perception of cost of Feeling like a number now that a name and I also think ratings and reviews are far more engaged these days people are shopping for healthcare and but one of the biggest factors is everybody has all of these experiences outside of healthcare and the pandemic accelerated that expectation from the consumer world to the healthcare world.

It’s so interesting that you talk about that because we’ve obviously seen the likes of Amazon and apple and googly all these non-traditional players coming and I think that’s been a big fear from leaders I’ve talked to is oh wait, they already nail it when it comes to Consumer experiences in the retail world in the tech space and if they can do that in healthcare, you know, we’re kind of in trouble, right and you know one of the things speaking of Amazon they acquired one medical last year, which is a sweet as primary care clinics that have very unique offerings it is it is a paid subscription that you can use it on top of your insurance and and employers can also provide it to their employees as an added benefit and I think with Amazon acquiring them. It’s going to be really interesting to watch what they do with that and it even further personalizing it I think.

Yes, healthcare does lag to your point, but one of the challenges is privacy and until people explicitly especially within Healthcare give you permission to talk to them about their specific Healthcare needs that is 100% has to be an explicit opt-in. Right, but the data shows that 60 more than 60% of consumers are willing to trade that really personal data for a better experience.

And like you said experience drive so much of how people interact in healthcare, whether that’s you know, getting their prescription drugs going to the hospital going to a checkup things that nature. I did kind of want to go back on The Branding aspect for a second. I had a conversation a few weeks ago with the chief ranting officer of moderna and they’ve launched their their campaign and she had talked about the fact that they really want people to start identifying as you know, moderna patients people that got their covid vaccine. They’re like, I’m modern again. I’m Pfizer game and it’s interesting to kind of hear that that’s an approach. I think we’re seeing in Pharma but like to your point consumers are you know, they’re kind of agnostic at this point for the large part in terms of like where it is as long as they get reliable.

Care that they like right right, you know Pharma is so interesting. I think there’s a lot of opportunity for loyalty strategies to be honest in a number of different ways one of which being I’m really thinking out of the box here, but what if a Consortium of Pharma companies partnered with payers to incentivize medication adherence for instance, right and that the Pharma companies can’t do that themselves, but payers can and at the end of the day every year medication not adherence costs this country billions and billions of dollars.

And is there a way to get that engagement get that incentive get that reward for their healthy behaviors? Everybody wins you know providers are paying out fewer claims Adverse Events and all the other comorbidities that can result from not taking your regimen and prescriptions are being refilled. So that hits the bottom line, right? And you know, I think there’s a huge opportunity. Called trials in the same spot, you know in the same respect retaining those people in Trials. That’s defection is one of the very biggest. challenges in that space, right and loyalty strategies can keep those people much closer to the trial much closer to your brand and the other opportunity with with Pharma, you know anyone who is taking a regular medication or they’re treating at Chronic or terminal illness and you know working to extend their lives programs that create community that have that surprise and Delight perhaps someone is going through a cancer regimen and can join a program where?

They’re recognized that they’re Milestones right where they’re getting encouraging emails between treatments and their caretakers are getting Outreach as well. It’s really creating them. A wellness ecosystem, you know and and then people say I went through the chitral brand, you know program and it got me everything that I needed and they took care of me and they made me feel loved and they made me feel safe. And that’s where loyalty program strength is. It is the engine through which all of these communications and experiences are delivered and people opt in so they they’re telling you they want to hear from you.

It’s interesting to hear you talk about kind of the thinking outside the box and those are any again those kind of seem like Common Sense approaches. Let’s target medication adherence. Let’s target clinical trial enrollment to the biggest issues that we hear about from the Pharma leaders that we talked to I’m curious obviously. These are a lot of ambitious ideas. I think for the healthcare industry, but you know applicable ones are there any sort of misconceptions around loyalty programs that you’d like to dispel for health leaders in our audience or maybe the Skeptics. They’re like, yeah, that sounds good. But you know, there’s always a butt at the end of it.

Well, I think because the size of their audiences is so large, right? It just seems impossible and things are slower and Healthcare, but these really are doable, you know HIPAA concerns. If you have an explicit opt-in, it’s really not that. you’ve overcome a big challenge right there, right and taking data third-party data Public Health Data and looking at where things are trending. You can really localize these efforts and start small.

You know, and and I think the overwhelming nature is is like, oh my God, we just could never pull this off. We were Consulting with a health system a very large health system and and idn in the southern part of the country and we were offering different suggestions on how they can bring their communities closer and we said start with a disease State maybe right. Maybe just diabetes.

Which is more prevalent in certain pockets in the South maybe just diabetes work on what kind of contents can be meaningful. What kind of community is going to?

Be drawn to you what pilot start with pilots and and scale from there the overwhelming size of the healthcare audience. I think can just immediately shut down ideas. That could be really really beneficial.

There was I think that I’m sorry to interrupt. I just think that’s something that I wanted to emphasize her audiences the fact that sometimes they can seem so overwhelming but really some of these again ambitious ideas can have chaos if you know actually follow through right we did a pilot. We you know did all the the research and the insights and the qualitative and quantitative and research to to vet the strategy that we had designed and built a pilot for a global med tech company and a couple of years ago. And that’s B2B right that was from the Medtech company to idms and it had a 100% And adoption and and thumbs up from the provider system saying yes. Yes. I love it. And from the sales team that said this gave me a reason to connect.

Again between those transactions, brand loyalty is so much more than a transaction. There’s a study I think it was it was just Delight or Accenture a couple years ago that laid out that now is the opportunity for Health Care organizations to really Make a bold move in their customer experience whether it’s B2B or b2c. And then they will recoup. You know five to ten percent before covid revenues in a short amount of time. It’s going to be the first people that get there the first people that are striking boldly, right?

As it so is often the case test. I’ve really enjoyed having you on the show. I wanted to leave you with just the final word. If there’s any sort of partying advice to the leaders in our audience the decision makers as they go about, you know, either thinking about implementing a loyalty program or actually get themselves just anything you want to leave them with.

Well, I think if it’s something that you’re considering and again, whether it’s B to b or b2c any sector within Healthcare the demand is there and customers whether their Healthcare consumers or your business customers or partners and people want to feel appreciated for their business and they want to be recognized as valuable to your organization. And you know taking the first step maybe a little scary it is doable and Healthcare and again you want to just make sure that you’re working with a partner that is is.

Confirming that the approach of taking is compelling. And its value is financially viable and operationally feasible. Baby steps are okay. They’re the best place to start, you know, validate what you’re doing and then scale from there taking that incremental approach as always a very valuable step. Well test again. Thank you so much for being on the show and talking to us about loyalty programs and health care and certainly if we start to see them rolling out for some of the brands and companies that we cover. We’d love to have you back on the show to discuss.

Health Policy Update with Lecia Bushak.

The White House is launching a new plan to tackle xylazine – a drug commonly known as “tranq” – to help stem the increasing number of overdose deaths in the U.S.

Xylazine is a veterinary tranquilizer not approved for human use, but in recent years, it’s emerged as a deadly drug that’s often combined with fentanyl. Deaths from fentanyl laced with xylazine increased by 276% between January 2019 and June 2022, according to new data from the CDC.

In a statement, the Office of National Drug Control Policy director Dr. Rahul Gupta noted the White House has been QUOTE – “working tirelessly to create the best plan of attack to address this dangerous and deadly substance head-on.”

He added that the new federal plan employs “the best evidenced-based practices,” and aims to save lives.

The plan rallies around six main pillars – testing, data collection, evidenced-based prevention and harm reduction, supply reduction, scheduling and research. The ultimate goal is to eliminate fentanyl combined with xylazine as an emerging threat – and to reduce xylazine-linked deaths by 15% once 2025 rolls around.

That includes developing new tests for clinical settings – such as rapid tests for xylazine and fentanyl that can be used in real-time in clinical care. Identifying xylazine overdose reversal agents – the way Narcan can treat opioid overdoses – and boosting capacity among first responders.

But the plan calls for assistance among healthcare providers too. The White House urged physicians and hospitals to be more alert to signs of xylazine among overdose patients – and to know how to direct them to opioid use disorder treatment services. I’m Lecia Bushak, Senior Reporter at MM+M.

And this is the part of the broadcast when we welcome Jack O’Brien to tell us what’s trending on healthcare social media.

As of this recording, Meta’s Twitter rival Threads has overtaken ChatGPT as the fastest-growing online platform with more than 100 million sign ups in the week since its launch.

By the time you listen to this, that number will undoubtedly be higher.

Coinciding with the emergence of the first true rival to Twitter since Elon Musk’s takeover of the site in October is a considerable traffic dropoff on the bird app, according to CloudFlare CEO Matthew Prince.

This has only intensified an ongoing war of words between Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg and Musk, who has threatened a lawsuit against Meta over claims that the social media giant used Twitter’s trade secrets to create Threads. 

The Zuckerberg-Musk rivalry, which was first teased as a potential cage match, has now devolved into the latter calling the former a “cuck” and suggesting a “literal dick measuring contest.” So clearly things are going well. 

But while we’ve all of this makes for a sensational amount of mainstream headlines, memes about whichever social media platform-owning billionaire you support and yet another app to download, it does beg the most obvious question for our purposes: what does it mean for medical marketing? 

Currently, advertising is off-limits on the text-based platform but that is likely to change in the future, which means marketers will need to be ready to spring into action.

I took the question to Fishbowl, the virtual professional community app, to see what those in the industry think and one response stood out to me:

One copy supervisor wrote: “I think Twitter is still waiting to be dethroned. Twitter’s power was never reach the way Facebook’s was (it had much fewer users), Twitter’s power was the profile of its user base, which included national media figures, academics, business figures, politicians, funny posters, and assorted movers and shakers. The app that manages to catch a critical mass of these figures will be the one – and as of right now no single app has managed to capture that migration.”

Similarly, our colleagues at Campaign reached out to advertising execs for their thoughts and there was a general agreement that while Threads isn’t Twitter, yet, it has the resources and momentum to do serious damage to Twitter’s market position like no other platform has before.

And while Twitter is taking its lumps, the site does have one group in its corner: The Taliban. Its leader Anas Haqqani tweeted Monday morning that Twitter has the privilege of freedom of speech as well as its public nature and credibility compared to the “intolerant policy like Meta.”

So now less I’m gonna put you in the uncomfortable position of following the Taliban with kind of reframing the conversation here on basically where we go with threads. I think we’re all kind of in this waiting game of its emerged. It’s got a lot of sign ups, but what does it mean for our audience? Yeah.

I mean, I think we’re just kind of at the start of it. Obviously the huge, you know, sign up numbers that we’ve seen in the last week or so is very striking. I mean, it’ll be interesting to see if it ends up being sort of a passing fad, you know where people kind of use it for a little bit and then don’t use it match anymore or if it does end up gaining sort of gaining a lot of traction. But if anything it goes to show how social media has become increasingly fractured, you know doesn’t really revolve around one main media platform and or social media platform anymore like Facebook and I think Elon musk’s attempt to kind of make Twitter into that isn’t working out very well. So yeah, it’ll be interesting to see how you know it if they do end up taking more advertisers what that’s going to look like for the industry.

Marc, what are your thoughts on it?

Yeah. Thanks jackets. It’s interesting considering your interview with Tess about brand loyalty. You know the it I think those principles also apply to social media platforms, you know, there really is a little brand loyalty amongst them and especially you know with all the chaos that’s been happening on Twitter over the last several months, you know, a lot of advertisers have fled obviously and that’s created an opportunity for Facebook to move in here with threads and you know, as less you said one of the big questions is whether moderation will be better on threads and whether that’s likely to please advertisers, you know, certainly certain moves, you know with all the you know, brand safety issues of the past months that have gone on on Twitter have heard advertising on the platform. And obviously this is an opportunity.

For Threads to court new ones or to court some of those some of those same ones. So that’s that’s one of the big questions that you know, we’re gonna look at to see, you know, whether and to what extent they’re able to sign up. I think some of them already have you know, because obviously brand safety is a big issue for for brands for advertisers. And I think there they’re already flooded threads as it’s open to new users, you know, 70 million new users. What’s that the account

It was 30 million as last week. It’s it’s over a hundred million now and kind of to that point marketing. It’s interesting that you bring up the point about moderation because we’ve seen that Twitter is obviously become largely unsafe for Brands, you know, in terms of where their ads are being placed against other ads or content or you know even just the nature of Elon musk’s posting, but then you have something like threads that emerged that is very meta heavy where it’s you know, I would say almost sanitized at least from my experience of growing of going on threads. It’s not the same zip or bite the Twitter has but it’s definitely safer than Twitter is there’s definitely a lot less, you know pollution in terms of the content that you’re reading. So it’s it’s how do you balance that? You know, is that something that met is gonna prioritize or are they gonna say we’d rather play, you know safe than try and get into the muck with Twitter on that front.

Yeah, if they can present a more polished social media experience and cut down on the toxicity that we’ve seen with Twitter. They may very well steal the show in terms of AD money.

We’ll see and I’d be remiss to remind our audience that you can follow @mmmonline on threads. So if that’s your new platform of choice go find us there you’re gonna find a lot of new great content cleaning this podcast up there

And you’ve got another item about Twitter, right?

Yeah, as is often the case for politicians, their bombastic rhetoric didn’t match with their actual legislative agenda or voting track record.

Last Friday evening, the @POTUS account for President Biden tweeted, “On my watch, health care is a right not a privilege in this country.”

Then came the inevitable Community Note.

The Twitter feature tagged the post with a two paragraph note: “Joe Biden has never publicly supported universal healthcare or Medicare for All, and has suggested he would veto bills that implement such a system. His stated policy goal is ‘affordable’ healthcare achieved by expanding existing programs like the ACA and Medicare.”

Biden ran and won in 2020 on a moderate policy platform that emphasized strengthening the Affordable Care Act instead of embracing the call for Medicare for All pushed by Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. While this may have endeared him to centrist Democrats and independent voters, progressives have been less forgiving. 

This situation prompted one Twitter user to compare the Community Note to a highlight reel of Vince Carter dunking.

And that’s really what got my attention. I didn’t see the original tweet in the community note. I just saw Vince Carter highlights from the early 2000s. It was transported back in time, but it does call the mind that Healthcare is not immune on Twitter. And if you say something like that Community notes will come for you and then the users will come for you.

Yeah, is that AI generated?

What the Vince Carter dunking?

The community knows something that Twitter actually does which I think is interesting just in terms of going back to the conversation about moderation. There’s not a lot of it but occasionally.

the new things they added with Elon musk’s takeover, and they’ll even do it on his tweets too, which is extraordinarily ironic. Imagine paying 44 billion dollars for your own site. Tell you that you’re wrong on something nothing like a little self-police. Yeah

The healthcare industry could be witness to one of the most unusual matchups: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, (D-N.Y.), and the Food and Drug Administration versus influencer Logan Paul. 

Over the weekend, Schumer sent a letter to the FDA calling on the agency to investigate Prime Energy, Paul’s drink brand, due to potentially dangerous levels of caffeine.

“Prime Energy Drink has so much caffeine that it could endanger kids’ health. But it’s being marketed to kids! Parents and pediatricians are worried,” Schumer said in a social media post on Sunday evening.

He pressed the FDA to look into the energy drink’s “absurd caffeine content” as well as its marketing targeting kids on social media.

Schumer’s call for an FDA investigation marks a public challenge to a popular energy drink brand backed by Paul and fellow YouTuber KSI, who have nearly 50 million subscribers combined across their primary channels.

Neither influencer has publicly commented on the call for an investigation and a Prime representative did not immediately respond to a request for comment from the Associated Press.

Launched in January 2022, Prime Energy is available in six different flavors, with a 12-pack retailing for $30 on GNC’s website. 

According to the drink’s nutritional facts, a can of Prime Energy has zero sugar and 300 milligrams of electrolytes but also has 200 milligrams of caffeine, which is the equivalent of one to two 8-ounce cups of brewed black coffee.

While the Mayo Clinic says that, on average, 400 milligrams of caffeine per day is safe for adults, the drug affects people differently.

Prime Energy also comes with a warning label that urges users to drink responsibly and indicates it is “not recommended for children under 18 years of age.” 

Since its debut last year, the drink brand has been a runaway success, with Paul claiming that Prime has generated worldwide sales north of $250 million, including $45 million in January 2023.

The viral popularity of the drink led to shortages across the U.K., supermarkets imposing buying restrictions and people reselling the drinks for a higher price on the secondary market, according to The Conversation. Additionally, some schools in the U.K. and Australia have banned the drinks due to concerns voiced by pediatricians about health impacts on young people and kids.

Still, the brand has accrued a massive online fanbase, with 1.7 million followers on Instagram, as well as key partnerships with the UFC, Los Angeles Dodgers, Arsenal and FC Barcelona. In addition to a promotional appearance at Wrestlemania 39, the two also starred in a 30-second ad supporting Prime Hydration during Super Bowl LVII.

All this is to say, I think we have a very unlikely be fair between Chuck Schumer and Logan Paul Leisha. Where do you want to go with this?

I you know, I want to point out that the 200 milligrams of caffeine in this Prime energy drink is six times the amount of caffeine and a can of Coca Cola just to further put that into context. So I think you know schumerous call for the FDA to look into it isn’t too unwarrant head. I know that there’s always been some research showing that energy drink conception can can have adverse health effects, especially if you’re mixing energy drinks with alcohol and if anyone remembers the Four Loko conversation about a decade ago, you know, there is some studies coming around coming out around that time linking energy drink consumption to ER visits specifically when you know, those energy drinks we’re linked with alcohol and for Loco was kind of both in the same container, so it’ll be interesting to see if this gets the same negative attention that for logo did that ended up that being pulled from you know stores.

Time is a flat circle.

It’s coming around again.

Yeah, I think the looking at the policy statements of some of the pediatric physician groups. They you know recommend really carefully restricting, you know, the amount of caffeine ingested by kids under 12, you know and and energy drinks for all children and teens, you know, so the fact that you know, this crime, you know has such a concentrated amount of that substance and and parents, you know, don’t really have any control over it, you know, it’s it’s just a bad combination and it’s the summertime and it’s hot and you know, we all want to keep our kids hydrated and everything else and it’s just you know, I I think this is actually a good opportunity for a little oversight.

He asked me and it’s tough. I’ve had conversations with you know, some parents in the office as it relates to this and they’ve talked about you know, how popular you know, the Paul brothers are amongst, you know kids of a certain age and especially the prime Brands and it is important to differentiate. There is the energy drink versus the hydration which doesn’t have any caffeine in it, but it really is you know Schumer is calling to attention that marketing towards kids which again the Paul Brothers have an outsized influence and you know, if they’re being told oh, this is the drink of the summer. This is the thing you got to have and their friends are drinking and stuff. There is an amount of peer pressure that comes with that. It does go back into the four logo of it all where it’s like, yeah these products that come out with insane level of caffeine and I say this is somebody that doesn’t drink caffeine. It’s it’s a very muddy situation in addition to the fact that they have all these, you know sponsorships with Brands like WrestleMania the Super Bowl ad these very well-known sports franchises. It’s it’s quite the situation of why check here. You’re lucky that you mellow.

Oh, no, it’s it’s an advantage. You save a lot of money for sure.

But kids are very susceptible obviously to these Brands and you know, whether it’s you know, social media influencers sports or you know, just kind of appealing to kids, you know through, you know, some of the you know, fruity flavors like, you know, we’ve seen some of the vaping brands do it, you know, you just can’t do that. You know, you can’t you can’t do that without any repercussions. I’m not I’m not an FTC commissioner, you know, but doesn’t take it doesn’t take a come FTC commissioner to know that, you know, if you if you venture into those waters, you know, you’re gonna get your wrist slapped and if there were just doing the energy drink fine, but now they’ve got this additional drink with all this caffeine in it. You know, it doesn’t look good for the for Logan Paul.

Well, especially too like the the cans are neon colored and like the ads are admittedly fun. They’re fast-paced. They’re they’re together really well and stuff and it’s like yeah if I was 12 again, that would be really appealing to me, but I’m not and I at least you know, I understand what it means to have 200 milligrams of caffeine. I don’t think a child. Does this also does come to mind less than I were talking about this offline. But I think it does bear bringing up is that this is not the first time that Logan Paul has been involved in controversy. Obviously. I think the one that comes to mind is when he went to the suicide forest in Japan back at the end of 2017 and that almost got him thrown off of YouTube. Obviously that wasn’t the case YouTube said he hadn’t violated the three strikes policy, but he came out there with multiple apology videos. And that was I mean, do you talk about a PR faux paw?

Yeah. I kind of thought he had been canceled a long time ago. So sort of surprise see his name come back up link to this, you know this really popular new energy drink after a conversation on energy drinks. I think it’s probably best that we Throttle Down and and the episode that way.

Yeah, I’m gonna have a little liquid death.

Exactly have some decaf tea. So everyone pour yourself some chamomille and enjoy the rest of your day.

That’s it for this week. The MM+M Podcast is produced by Bill Fitzpatrick, Gordon Faylor, Lecia Bushak and Jack O’Brien. Our theme music is by scissium rate review and follow every episode wherever you listen to podcasts new episodes out every week and be sure to check out our website and mmm for the top news stories and farmer marketing.

Are you looking to create a podcast to promote your brand agency product or service Haymarket media would love to produce a podcast or audio ad for you. Call me Andrea Tomlin 917-838-6624. That’s 917-8386624. Email me Andrea. Donlin d o n l o n at Haymarket