Dr. Kemi Olugemo, a philanthropist devoted to advancing global health and gender equity, highlights her work with Clinics for Life, why infant mortality remains a huge problem in America and addresses the root causes of health inequities in a sprawling discussion with Marc Iskowitz. Lecia Bushak provides an update on the state of data privacy policy when it comes to companies using consumers’ health data for marketing purposes. Meanwhile, Jack O’Brien dives into Elon Musk’s MRI, the controversy around the lobotomy-chic trend online and what shots of apple cider vinegar can do for your gut. Music by Sixieme Son.

Note: The MM+M Podcast uses speech-recognition software to generate transcripts, which may contain errors. Please use the transcript as a tool but check the corresponding audio before quoting the podcast.

Hey, it’s Mark. I’m taking some time off with the family for a few days but picking up where we left off and last week’s social media segments, we touched on the trend of maternal. Assisted cesarean sections that Trend made some of us a bit squeamish, I not only because of the tiktok videos that depict mom’s literally lifting their newborns out of their own wounds during C-sections maternal. Mortality rates have actually doubled in the US over the last two decades, new research shows and deaths are highest among black mothers. The latter problem was underscored in May when US Olympic champion Sprinter Tori, Bowie died, reportedly as a result of childbirth, complications

Officials said Bowie who was just a few years removed from her gold caliber performance at the 2017 World track and field championships, likely was undergoing labor when she passed away at the young age of 32, black Americans faced an elevated risk of preeclampsia and a clamps. The NIH says contributing to a higher death rate before and after childbirth, a medical examiners link these health problems to Bowie’s death. Actually, what’s the root cause of the higher risks? Faced by black Americans, researchers have attributed, some of the disparity taxes to health care and a lot of it to the promise of structural racism in which current policies procedures. May actually keep people from being healthy. We need new solutions to this Angel problem introductory. Algoma, who many are audience know for her roles at biotech for an ultra genetics, and the group women of color and Pharma. But she’s also a board member of a non-profit group, whose goal is to save the lives of mothers and newborns and integrated communities, with high levels of infant. And maternal mortality,

In addition to the group’s rationale, I was also intrigued by cammy’s comments about what seems to be a dysfunctioning system of charitable Healthcare. Instead of combating, the persistent disparities and Global Health. This system seems to be perpetuating them this week on the podcast, the state of maternal mortality and the approach to eradicating this at clinics for Life, given the shared goal of eliminating Healthcare disparities that affect the most vulnerable. I believe there’s our issues that all Healthcare marketers would do well to familiarize themselves with. Now let’s just hear with the health policy update.

Today I’ll give an update on the state of data privacy policy when it comes to companies using consumers’ health data for marketing purposes.

This week, we’re talking about Elon Musk’s MRI, the controversy around the lobotomy-chic trend online and what shots of apple cider vinegar can do for your gut.

Hey, this is Marc, editor at large for MM+M and it’s my great privilege to be speaking with Dr. Kemi, how are you?

I’m doing well, Mark, thank you so much for the invitation.

Absolutely. So you’re a physician scientists. You’re also vice president of global clinical development for the biotech from ultragenyx, which focuses on treatments for rare neurological diseases.

You. And I first met while I was reporting on a piece about the group women of color and Pharma for which you handle external Communications. And you’re also a philanthropist devoted to advancing Global health, and gender equity, and your work. There is equally as fascinating. I thought, maybe we just could start out with having you tell us about your role with the group clinics for life, and maybe a little bit about the organization.

I’d love to so clinics for life, was founded with a very clear and specific purpose. And what we are trying to do is to deliver maternal care to disadvantaged developing communities.

With four babies dying every minute and losing a mother to complications from childbirth. We decided to heed the call to action.

Our founder. Robert Turner likes to say that we are not faced by some strange and incurable disease, that’s ravaging newborns and their mothers. But rather by lack of Sustainable Solutions to address these Healthcare imbalances that are in developing countries, and, and countries that like the us. So, we estimate that up to 85% of these tragic deaths can be preventable with access to proper Medical Care, and that is where our focus is right on the access indeed. The more I read about this organization, the more I was intrigued about its rationale, giving that infant mortality remains a huge problem, even here in the US. So, how about we kind of segue right into that? You know, talk about the state of maternal mortality in this country?

Yeah, yeah. So my self and and many others, I’m sure heard of the sudden death of US Olympic champion. Sprinter Tori, Bowie.

Who died in May of this year from complications of childbirth and it was really shocking to me that a 32 year old former athlete in the US. Someone really of means would die in this manner, but Tori, Belle prayed to systemic Health. Inequities that really persist in the US.

According to the National Institute of Health, black Americans face and elevated risk of preeclampsia and decline CIA.

Both of these contribute to a higher rate of death, both before. And after childbirth, in fact, the maternal death rate in Black Americans is much higher than any other racial group, and it doesn’t matter which source you look at, and it’s approximately three times higher the black women than it is for white women.

So when you look at this and the fact that when you compare the US to other developed countries, we have far higher rates that are predominantly driven by these disproportionate deaths and communities of color specifically for black women. We are at a crisis right now in terms of maternal mortality in the US.

Yeah, and so tragic, thank you for mentioning the tragic death of Tori, Bowie, the elite Olympic athlete, who died of complications from childbirth, you know, there was just a study this month, in fact, in Jama saying that maternal mortality rates have doubled in the US over the last two decades with deaths deaths, highest among black mothers

Um, just to put it in perspective in 1999, there were an estimated 12.7 deaths per 100,000 live births and in 2019 at figure Rose to 32.2 deaths per 100,000 live births, according to their study, and this doesn’t even include data from the pandemic years and we know that that only exacerbated the situation so people can check that out. What can we say about women’s health globally? Kimmy.

Yeah. So, unfortunately, the news on the global front isn’t much better than it is in the US. So, being a man or a woman can impact your health significantly and their biological and gender-related differences. But there are socio, cultural and economic differences, and, and many societies globally. Women are disadvantaged by discrimination. Some of these socio-cultural issues, prevent women and girls from getting quality.

Um Healthcare. So again the issue of access and you know I can, I can name several issues that are pervasive in many countries and they tend to be more of an issue in developing countries. So, unequal power relationships, you know, between men and women reduced access to education and paid employment poverty. Even though poverty can affect both men and women, it tends to have a higher burden on women and girls in particular, their health.

There is this proportionate focus on reproductive roles but women that is not focused on men. We can’t also forget about violence against women. So, you know, when you take all these issues, you know into consideration, there’s just this gaping divide and Healthcare outcomes for women compared to math.

Absolutely and equalizing those outcomes should be the goal of everyone including people in this industry and Healthcare marketing. And so you know the shared goal of universal health care is of interest of great interest to everyone and that’s why I felt like, you know, marketers need to familiarize themselves with clinics for life and with these issues that we’re talking about, let’s talk about you know, segue to some of the roots causes, you know, of these inequities

Yeah. So in the US a lot of inequities are caused by systemic systemic issues. If we come back to you know the disproportionate that mortality for black women. Unfortunately, you know that’s rooted in racial discrimination and social determinants of Health.

I am a clinical researcher and I think about clinical trials. And I was very surprised several years ago to find out that it wasn’t until the 1990s that the FDA developed guidelines, to actually require women participate in research. And so, you know, prior to that, we had this patriarchy where, you know, we were using data and results from men and generalizing them to women and predominantly white men, right? So, these are, you know, some of the root causes that are being addressed. But, you know, there’s still a substantial Gap and that’s, you know, why clinics for life was created and why we stepped in to try to address some of these urgent gaps in addition to you know, Healthcare policy which we think also plays a significant role. Yeah.

And you know speaking of you know, regulations the FDA just this year, you know, just this past februari. So it’s going to require a diversity plan for clinical trials, so, you know, think of all those years of clinical studies, where as you say, we were just kind of collecting data on most, you know, predominantly white men and then just kind of generalizing it, you know, to the population at large. So, these things are finally changing. But there’s a lot, A lot has been Transpired. In the meantime, the other thing that I was intrigued by, you know, when we were talking about this, doing this podcast was the problem with charitable health care. And you know, the more I read about that, the article that you pointed me to show that Healthcare. And then the Charities that are providing access to care are instead of kind of remediating these problems like infant mortality. Unfortunately, you know, these problems under the current system are being perpetuated, but what is the problem with with charitable Solutions? How come these things aren’t working?

Yeah, so you bring up a very good point and it’s really unfortunate that, you know, after decades, Decades of pouring money, in this problem, we haven’t come to any solutions. We’ve actually, you know, we grasped, right? You mentioned how mortality rates are worsening in the US, in the past decade and

And so, billions of dollars later with contributions coming from various sectors, things are getting worse. So now we realize that throwing money. You know, at these problems is really not the solution. When you keep throwing money at a problem, there’s a sustainability issue that also comes into play and what we’ve done is to develop solutions that we feel will be sustainable by not creating these dependencies within disadvantaged communities which essentially place these communities at the mercy of Charities that are well-intentioned. Okay? The covid pandemic has highlighted these dependencies just think about how vaccine delivery that was intended for developing countries really didn’t happen as it was planned and rather than creating and supporting Independent Health Services in any given country. We continue to promote these dependency.

Based Solutions. So that’s why these past, you know, attempts and solving this problem have not worked.

Right. The problem, you know, comes down to as the article goes on to point out really that historically you know these groups don’t encourage real Innovation and so you have the same.

You know. so Solutions being tried and when you have diminishing levels of care, as we said, you need to continue to innovate and these groups are not you know doing that and that’s perpetuating the inequities. There’s also something you point out a problem of donor. Apathy you want to double? Click on that one for a second.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So don’t always want to be able to understand where their money is going, right? And if you continue to donate money and you don’t really see any return on that investment and the return that they’re looking for is really for a problem to, to be solved. Then, it’s really hard to motivate people to keep giving money. And we’ve noticed that, you know, a lot of organizations are really tightening their physical belts, a global economies all. So, tightening their physical belts. And so the apathy is really setting it.

Yeah. People, you know, kind of just assume a lot without kind of following up and checking exactly talk about, you know, how the clinics for clinics for Life clinics actually work. You have something called a Third practice agreement model. You talk about that for a second.

We do we do so clinics for Life created. A hybrid model that we feel will address a lot of the issues that we’ve just been talking about Mark. And so what we are trying to do is combine the best of Charity with social entrepreneurship. So what we do is we for each Clinic that we aim to build, we would like to have one donor a partner for each clinic and we build an equip, a physical Clinic with the use of these donor funds in areas of special needs that we identify beforehand, we use the donor funding, to purchase the land to construct the clinic and to fully equip the site.

Um, these centers are designed from the ground up with a singular purpose to be financially self-sustaining for decades and to enable ongoing delivery of care without relying on continuous funding from the donor. And then the other intention is that over time these models will actually generate profit. So once a clinic is probably is constructed. We staff the clinic.

And then we open it up to the public and it operates like a normal Clinic. Except the Physicians there, they agree to see a certain number of patients who ordinarily would not be able to pay and that’s really the premise of the shared practice agreement,


So, this provides an agreement, you know, under which clinicians can do their, this incredibly important work and donors, you know, can feel confident, you know, that the money is going, you know, right toward where it’s most needed talk about, you know, this model in action, you know, are there other clinics that you’re setting up right now that are already set up?

Yeah. And how people can get involved, whether they’re a clinician or donor potential donor or you know Healthcare marketers. Is there a role for You know, our industry and kind of promoting this and you know, get getting behind it.

Sure. So right now we have two clinics that are and and Construction in the Philippines which is the first location that we’re in. And So the areas that we identify have to be an area of special need, but they also have to be able to sustain paying patients, right? Because you can’t have only patients, who would, you know, be looking for help and not able to pay. And so you know, we very carefully pick these these areas that we think would be amenable to this particular solution. So we’re starting in Asia. We also have plans To deploy the same model in Africa and in the US, but that’s really planning stages.

And so, we are looking for donor Partners. Right now, we’re looking for volunteers with various skill sets and the healthcare industry. We believe in the power of technology to improve the delivery of care. And are looking specifically for anyone who agrees with our mission and is willing to help with, you know, all the work that we really have ahead of us right now.

Sure. And if you want to check out more about that, the website is clinics. The number four life that come and you can, you know, read all about the group’s vital Mission and how to get involved image, want to kind of have to this fascinating discussion, you know, on all fronts, you know, including, you know, highlighting these inequities, which are worsening the problems with, you know, past charitable Solutions, and you know, clinics for life’s role and ameliorating these issues. You know, what do you want to leave?

What impression do you want to leave Health Care marketers with? You know, we we see a kind of an uptick the last couple years. Maybe more than that last several years of, you know, agencies as well as a Pharma companies, kind of getting behind, not only, you know, D and I issues and addressing inequities in their communities. But also, you know, supporting philanthropic causes and you know, doing campaigns and whatnot. I want to leave you with the last word here in terms of, you know what Healthcare marketers should think about this. And, you know, you know, if they’re kind of on the fence about, you know, looking for that next philanthropic cause you know, why they should really consider this one.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So women are essentially half of the population, right? And so if we want a sustainable and healthy Society, we can continue to ignore this problem. And I believe the private sector has a responsibility to collaborate closely with policy makers to help to increase funding and Ensure.

That our clinical trials, for example, include more women, we need to really look at the entire life sciences ecosystem. We need to take a hard look, agenda bias in our studies and any, you know, AI algorithms, for example, or any other supporting or enabling technology and our Workforce. We need to make sure that our teams have diverse and gender balanced teams so that we have, you know, adequate representation and people are looking and studying the right problems so that we can create these Sustainable Solutions. So essentially, it’s going to take everyone, you know, coming together and acting and doing something different because the path Solutions have not worked,

right, right. Okay, well said, okay, so again, if you want to help this Advantage communities and this very, you know, tragic issue of maternal engine mortality.

And check out clinics for life.com. Kemi this has been a great privilege. Thanks so much for talking with us today on the podcast and thank you so much for having me more.


Health policy update with Lecia Bushak.

In the past few months, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has been on a health data privacy roll — increasingly cracking down on healthcare companies that use consumers’ health data without their consent — at a not-before-seen level.

GoodRx, BetterHelp, Flo Health and Premom have all joined the roster of companies who have recently received scrutiny – or been sued and fined – by the FTC over their data-sharing practices.

The FTC is turning up the heat on the issue to fill in a gap in the U.S., which doesn’t have a federal data privacy law like the European Union has the GDPR. As a result, companies here are freely sharing people’s sensitive health data with third parties.

Laura Aldridge is a vice president and data privacy officer at Rapp.

ALDRIDGE (0:12 – 0:33): In the absence of a federal privacy law, the FTC is using all the rules in its box to enforce general things like the fairness principle and the transparency principle… They want to make sure that consumers are aware their data is being used for marketing purposes.

Ethical concerns about the lack of regulation in data sharing for marketing purposes have been mounting in the last year.

When Roe v. Wade was overturned in 2022, experts expressed concern that health data could be used to prosecute women seeking abortions in anti-abortion states.

One of the bills introduced in Congress this year around data privacy regulation, the UPHOLD Privacy Act, was in response to the abortion issue. Sponsored by Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), the bill would prohibit the use of health data in advertising and the sale of location data to and from data brokers.

Plus, a handful of states have recently enacted new data privacy laws – like the California Consumer Privacy Act – which gives consumers the right to demand to see all the information a company has saved on them.

But major legislation that would enact more widespread change on the federal level is unlikely anytime soon – so this patchwork of state laws combined with FTC actions will serve as regulation for healthcare companies for the time being.

With the upcoming elections in the next year, Aldridge believes federal data privacy policy will take a back seat.

ALDRIDGE: Personally, I would be happily surprised if we see something signed before the next election.

I’m Lecia Bushak, Senior Reporter at MM+M.

Marc is off this week on vacation, so this is the part of the broadcast where I tell us what’s trending on healthcare social media.

We had a few stories that just missed the cut, including Sandra Bullock’s longtime partner passing away at 57 due to ALS, Guy Fieri buying a hog at a fair in support of cancer research, Cleveland Cavaliers point guard Ricky Rubio putting his career on hold indefinitely to focus on mental health and researchers working on synthetic alcohol that could result in no hangover or ill effects.

Elon Musk versus Mark Zuckerberg, the fight that nobody asked for but most have said they would watch, might have a hiccup. 

Musk tweeted on X, the social media platform formerly known as Twitter, over the weekend that he may require surgery and planned to receive an MRI of his neck and upper back Monday. 

The world’s richest man said he might need an operation to strengthen the titanium plate hold his C5/C6 vertebrae together.

If Musk requires surgery, it could delay the proposed cage match between him and Zuckerberg that has been in the works for weeks.

Days before, the 52-year-old Musk said the fight would be streamed on X and proceeds would go towards charity for veterans.

Zuckerberg proposed a fight date of August 26 but added on Threads that he is not holding his breath. 

This all comes amid news that Musk’s brain-implantation startup Neuralink raised $280 million in its latest fundraising round led by Peter Thiel’s Founders Fund. The company is aiming to begin its first human trial later this year.

And, apropos of nothing, I wanted to include a quote from @Teslaeconomics that said the fight would not be a good idea if Musk requires surgery following the MRI.

“Elon’s strongest weapon isn’t his “Walrus” attack, it’s his vision, his heart for innovation, and his relentless drive to challenge the status quo in order to make the future better.”

Lesha. I don’t even know where we go from there but there was a lot there was a healthcare hook in there with with you know the world’s richest man needing an MRI.

Yeah, I mean somehow I missed the whole cage fight thing like when That’s supposed to be like a physical fight between them, they’ve been talking about doing a physical fight and it’s apparently like, I didn’t even know that they had looked at a date and it was all coming to a head and now he’s

kind of low-key backing out a little bit. I saw somebody online, comparing it to having like the oh my girlfriend lives in Canada. Kind of excuse where it’s like. Yeah you keep saying you want to and now you’re backing out and for what it’s worth, I mean, I’ve seen pictures of Mark Zuckerberg doing Jiu-Jitsu and all sorts of MMA and and Elon is now saying that he’s going to get an MRI before we even had a fight. So,

He’s definitely a guy who’s kind of you know, known for his like bravado and his show. And whether he really means what he’s saying, is not always clear because he’s kind of

All about the show, I think.

And we saw that too last year, with the whole acquisition Twitter. I mean he tried multiple times to back out of buying it and went through and spent

4 4, b. I l l i o n dollars a lot of back and forth there.

Yeah, so maybe it’s something similar on this front but we’ll stay tuned for. However, this turns out, as of this recording, we don’t have the results of the MRI, but we’ll keep, we’ll keep doing it on that.

In our most recent episode, we discussed the ‘Vaccinated??’ memes and Marc noted that while the trend seeks to employ anti-vaxxer lingo or claims in a humorous way against that community, there is an element to it that can be considered in bad taste.

Led primarily by Gen Z and other very-online people, oftentimes jokes on social media can take on an increasingly sarcastic, bizarre and nihilistic tone.

To that end, a recent op-ed in The Washington Post, Caroline Reilly criticized the lobotomy-chic trend that has remained an odd yet prominent part of online discourse for years.

She relates the story of famed playwright Tennessee Williams’ sister Rose to how mental health was stigmatized and treated from the 1930s to the 1960s, particularly through the institutionalization of women and use of lobotomy procedures. 

Reilly also highlighted what she deemed the “memeification of lobotomies and romanticization of sanitariums,” noting that certain hashtags on TikTok and viral tweets on X glamorize the phenomenon. She also notes that there are makeup tutorials on TikTok that show users how to achieve the lobotomy-chic look of sullen eyes and swollen lips.

Reilly takes great issue with the online popularization of lobotomies and how users have embraced the jokes and memes in an effort to mock the Girlboss feminism that came about during the last decade.

“Put simply, this is not just about making light of the past, about being insensitive to the generations that came before us — but about having such a myopic view of society that you fail to see the ways in which the legacy of these horrors lives on,” she wrote.

The op-ed generated more than 1,400 comments on The Washington Post’s website and discussion online.

For what it’s worth, I completely agree with the suggestion that mocking the at-times brutal and vicious medical procedures that countless patients were subjected to can come off as crude and disrespectful. 

At the same time, this is the humor that has made the internet into what it is currently and no one is out there seriously wishing for a lobotomy or forced trip to the sanitarium. Rather, these jokes and snarky asides are intended as a way to critique the institutional challenges and chronic societal flaws faced most acutely by Gen Zers and to an extent some younger Millennials.

This generation, with its emphasis on mental health care and self-preservation, has a clear desire to even ever so briefly divorce itself from the sense of doom that can come with existing in the third decade of the 21st century. In this case, that’s being able to switch off the brain for just a little bit, which is what a lobotomy represents in a more figurative sense.

It was an interesting, I don’t know if you got the chance to read the piece of it, but it was a very interesting discussion and I’ve seen it for years people talking about lobotomy and you know, if I can just smooth out my brain and those kinds of references. But there is that kind of going back to the vaccinated means that we talked about last week, this kind of

Do you have to say it in that sort of way? Is it, is it mocking too much to where you almost lose the point of what the point you’re trying to make?

I think it’s one of those.

Internet things like again like we’ve discussed in the past where it’s sort of like you kind of have to be in on the joke to you know I think the last line that you mentioned was important where it’s you know it’s not so much that they’re kind of making light of lobotomies and the past but it’s they’re actually kind of using it as a joke to critique the current state of mental health or all these other challenges that the younger Generations are facing. As you mentioned, this idea of switching off your brain and disassociating because everything else is so horrible that even a little lobotomy doesn’t seem as bad. So like I guess that’s kind of the joke that they’re pushing and I’ve seen the lobotomy Chic thing and the aesthetic and the joke kind of be on the internet for years. Now, I mean, it’s been on Tumblr for like, probably 10 years, so it’s not particularly new, but at the same time, I did, you know, read over the, The Washington Post Office and when you actually reflect and learn

About the reality of lobotomies in the past, it’s actually very devastating when you think about the women who were subjected to lobotomies back in the day.

You know, now we’re sort of we have some distance from that. So I think it’s a little bit easier for the younger generation, so you’ve never experienced that or been close to that. It’s kind of Create these memes or jokes. But yeah, I mean when you when you really do reflect on it and read that article you realize there’s a lot more weight to it.

Absolutely. And and to your point, I skim through some of the comments because like I said, there were 1400 in the comments section underneath the article. And there were people in there talking about experience is that they either had personally, right? Family members and for them, it’s very real. And for, you know, our generation being young girl and not having that as readily available, there is a certain distance that allows you to kind of poke fun where other people I think maybe hold it a lot more sensitively and justifiably. So, but your point is, well, taken where it’s been around for years. Going back to the previous decade in terms of people being, like, I’ve had enough internet. I’ve had enough Society being on all the time. Can I just turn off for a second?


Yeah. And you know I think the the last lobotomy ever performed was like in the 60s. So again that point that there are there still a generation of people who lived through that and we’re pretty close to it and you know the Gen Z and millennial generation probably didn’t have that much.

Closeness to it but I’m sure we’ll be seeing more lobotomy jokes as time goes on. Giving people’s desire to quote unquote disassociate from the the dark aspects of modern life I guess.

Yeah, that morbid Fascination that comes with being on the internet and never seems to go away.

We frequently talk about unorthodox health trends and life hacks proliferating on social media and we can add this one to the ever-growing canon.

Late last week, Vogue’s digital beauty editor Hannah Coates penned a piece titled “I Take an Apple Cider Vinegar Shot Every Morning—Here Are All the Benefits.”

Coates pointed out that apple cider vinegar, which converts crushed apples to acetic acid by way of yeast and sugar, has seen a swell of interest in terms of Google searches and millions views on TikTok.

Since raw, unfiltered apple cider vinegar contains a significant amount of ‘mother,’ bacteria and yeast, it is said to contain probiotics that are helpful for gut health.

Since taking apple cider vinegar by itself or in water in the morning, Coates said she has only been hungry when she’s supposed to be, which is at lunch and again at dinner, less bloated and more energized.

While she takes it as a shot, she spoke with an expert and apple cider vinegar advocate who recommended mixing 1-2 tablespoons in 15-30ml of water so as to not wear down tooth enamel. Still, Coates is a proponent of this health trend. 

“To conclude, ACV is not, in my opinion, another fad. Having soft-launched a daily helping into my routine a few weeks ago, I now know it’s now here for good. And while I know it’s not some cure-all, it is one dietary addition that has definitely improved my digestion for the better—and for that alone, it’s a resounding yes from me.”

Of note, a registered dietitian at The Cleveland Clinic was featured in a blog just last month on apple cider vinegar, highlighting its ability to lower blood sugar, reduce acid reflux and aid in weight loss. 

Still, she noted that there are side effects consumers should be mindful of and that studies about apple cider vinegar’s possible benefits are small and require additional research to bolster those claims.

Lesha. I don’t know what your cabinet looks like. I know that I have a big bottle of apple cider vinegar for various cooking means. I’ve never once thought of putting it in a shot glass and shooting it. But yes, same she did and I guess she’s reaping some sort of benefits from it.

Yeah, I mean, I think this is another one of those like tiktok and internet health trends that are people tied to weight loss. Where there’s not substantial evidence behind that actually aiding weight loss. I know the the Cleveland Clinic to you mentioned, you know, she she kind of makes that link but then also

Says, there is no concrete evidence that it has any long-term appetite suppression benefits. And so the quote, unquote, apple cider vinegar diet isn’t going to be, you know, your best option if you are looking to lose weight but you know, that being said, there are some health benefits to it. You don’t probably have to take like a shot of it. Every morning, you can probably just add it in a salad or, you know, find ways to cook with it. But it’s one of the the less harmful

Fad diets. We’ve seen, I guess, and I want to ask you on that point because you’ve written so many pieces for us about, you know, there was the, the only egg diet that people were trying, there was the Nature’s ozempic. Like you’ve, you’ve really gone down the rabbit hole. When you just think about what is this Fascination that we all have about? Like you know, maybe not taking a medical or exercise approach. It’s like if I just do this one trick, that fixes it all.

I mean, I think people are always looking for an easy solution for things like weight loss. And before actual ozempic people are always kind of looking to fad diets or you know these supplements that claimed weight loss to kind of be an easy fix I guess. So I think it’s it’s easy for people to kind of latch on to these very simple cost-effective things like apple cider vinegar, for example, it’s easy. It seems harmless. And I think people kind of latch onto that place all their hopes on to one thing to kind of say, oh, I’m going to hope.

Lose weight by doing this.

And this is not the best podcasting, but our podcast producer just put on our big screen here. You know, shots, wheatgrass, shots, and all the things you can buy online thing that was really big on tiktok for a while too.

What is it, what does it say? Here, we crash as a nutrient dense drink made from young grass that’s Blended or Juiced. And that’s the thing too, is none of these are ever appetizing. Like I do like putting apple cider vinegar in a salad where you mix around other ingredients but the idea of putting in a shot glass, like you do, whiskey or tequila, which I don’t have any problem with might be a bridge too far like wheatgrass. The even the word sounds like vaguely healthy and kind of, you know what I mean? Like I can see how it’s

Can seem like a healthy thing even though you don’t really know what it is.

Well, maybe for next week, we can get some wheatgrass shots and we’ll do that before you taste testing. No on are. We’ll do that. Apple cider vinegar.

Good idea. We’ll see how our guts improve as The Show Goes On, followed up with some bath salts. No yeah, no, no, maybe not that far. Well I appreciate everyone tuning in for this week and next week we will have all three of us back in the studio. So look forward to reconvening that.