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[00:01] Agency 100 PlayBook podcast strategy and creative art inherently intertwined right creative needs inspiration to create. [00:10] And our job as planners is to find them that inspiration find them that thing or that insight. That’s really going to unlock. [00:18] Smart work for a product. [00:19] How are we going to create? [00:21] Speak about what the ask is and then only– then we’ll will be able to kind of idea and hopefully come up with some good ideas. [00:32] That penalty results in a cult health first down. [00:37] Hello and welcome I’m Marc Iskowitz the editor at large for MM+M, and I’m pleased to be joined by two VIPs from CultHealth. Yeah, you got a executive creative director Jason Kirshenblatt and we have SVP Strategic Planner Seema Keswani. [00:50] How are you doing? I’m doing great pleasure to welcome you both. [00:53] We’re here to discuss how creative intelligence has helped propel the agency forward the subtext here is everybody’s talking about artificial intelligence. [01:01] But why not try creative intelligence? [01:04] Let’s just kind of take a step back for a moment before we get into the questions. [01:08] And October 2022 CultHealth which is a full service agency. [01:12] Was bought by indigene, but you’re still maintaining your independence and your proud member. [01:16] Of the agency 100 we’ve got a member of the creative team the head of the creative department and the head of the planning department and Jason and see me here. So we can have a very well-rounded discussion on creative intelligence. [01:30] Let’s just jump right in. [01:31] First of all I’d love to get a definition. How do you both define creative intelligence? [01:36] It’s a great question well. [01:37] As we were kicking around this idea. What is creative intelligence? [01:42] You know I’ll just give you the high Brow definition right we came up with this. [01:46] It’s this this fusion of human creativity with technological and data-driven enhancement. [01:53] Sounds sounds pretty cool. Huh, what is that mean? You know well, I think really what it is is the culmination of [02:01] Like you said we were a full service at agency. You know we we like to think we’re all creative and you know that we did some pretty decent creative. [02:09] Work over the years. [02:11] and when we were acquired by in the Gene [02:15] they come with this. [02:17] this breath [02:18] and wealth of data, and I think that’s kind of what was really exciting about the merger. [02:24] And we were able to use this data. You know this this what we’re calling creative intelligence you know and we app. [02:32] all departments [02:34] and along different points of content creation and now we have the opportunity to do it from the beginning all right. [02:40] So that a lot there, what is that really mean? [02:42] At the end of the day we all we all use data and how we we start any content creation that we you know ideation. [02:49] especially in the [02:50] an hour [02:50] form of sector right we need the data. [02:53] And information to inform how we’re even going to start the brief or seam a comes in. [02:58] and I think [02:59] this notion of [03:01] being acquired by a company that is in the former sector with 30 years of knowledge and data and sort of just this evergreen AI they use AI to kind of inform their data and it’s growing and how we can now we have that from the beginning as opposed to you know at the end. It will probably get more into depth but [03:21] kind of you know see me you want to elaborate like what that means in terms of. [03:25] starting the process because it kind of starts with you on the [03:28] yeah strategy side. I think I think like as we think about it. [03:32] Jason gave you the the kind of formal definition and I think from a logistical perspective right it is our marriage with indigen as a company asking a creative agency then being an intelligence company. [03:42] but [03:43] I think for me as a planner and in the strategy department really it’s we’ve traditionally had really good creative and [03:49] you know we’re kind of using that kind of qualitative data that we typically use. [03:53] And then you’ve had. [03:55] you know [03:56] data models and ai’s and things like that but [03:58] It really is The Marriage of those two things right so I am now able to with this kind of new creative intelligence model. I’m able to actually. [04:06] look at insight that scale and look at [04:09] consumers and customers at scale and a way that I was never able to do before. [04:13] So I think that. [04:14] That to me. [04:16] Is the beauty of it and that? [04:18] Creativity needs to be intelligent and Intelligence needs to be creative. [04:21] and that’s really what we [04:24] kind of been able to start to achieve here with call and industry and coming together. [04:28] and it’s just it’s just not [04:30] A model we’ve had in the past and I think it’s exciting and it allows us to. [04:34] be more precise be more targeted and and [04:37] you know from the point of planning & strategy like be more true to what the customers want and what they need. [04:43] So, I think that that if someone asked me was creative intelligence. I would say that it’s [04:48] it’s probably the thing that as a planner I’ve been waiting for but I didn’t have the infrastructure around me to make it happen. Yeah, we like to say the [04:55] Smart creative just got more intelligence yeah, right we were doing smart. [05:01] Creative right I mean look. [05:03] at the end of the day, we throw the [05:04] I like to always say we throw these these words like. [05:06] Concepts around [05:08] to too often like I’ll be honest with you. [05:10] Einstein those guys had concepts [05:13] I have ideas you know occasionally they’re good you know. [05:19] One in 10 [05:20] I’m wanting to what fine that’s cool. [05:22] but no that [05:23] so that’s kind of where we [05:25] kind of play in this space of in creative intelligence and obviously with with AI being such at the forefront of its. [05:32] It’s kind of infancy in a way in a weird way, even though it’s been around for a while, but it’s it’s this right right. It’s it’s it’s [05:38] burgeoning like [05:39] huge [05:41] It’s all we talk about and so many different sectors of work and whatever in our lives. [05:46] that [05:47] let’s talk about what we can how we can carve our unique path in the agency world and that’s where we came up with. [05:55] Zi and creative and help [05:57] no, I love it. Yeah. I think you know it’s how do we make the most of? [06:01] Like semi we’re saying you know. [06:02] We have this infrastructure now. [06:04] And I remember you know. [06:06] They probably wouldn’t appreciate this being called a commercialization consultancy but I’m not sure like how us to describe. [06:12] You know in the Gene I remember several years ago. They really kind of [06:15] you know were one of the first to come forward with that you know we’re data first. We’re all about data and I was like well. Can you be more specific? You know but like now it all kind of makes sense now. You know that would now that we’re in the age of AI and it was really a smart positioning. [06:27] And you know adding on cults to their platform as a really very complimentary. [06:31] Obviously move for them to make. [06:34] And and it sounds like you’re all kind of living that you know integrating the two together. That’s part of the strength lies that you’re stronger. [06:41] Than the individual parts because as you see me so you’re making. [06:45] the creative intelligence and the Intelligence becoming more creative [06:49] and so you know as you and Jason work together. [06:53] Can you just described for a second how planning you know works hand in hand with creative? I mean I’m sure our audience is familiar with that but just for my own edification. [07:01] Yeah, sure. Yeah, no for sure so you know from. [07:04] I think strategy and creative are inherently intertwined alright creative. [07:09] needs inspiration to create [07:12] and our job as planners is to [07:15] find them that inspiration find them that that thing or that insight. That’s really going to unlock. [07:20] Smart work for a product and so it can’t just be any insight right. It has to be an insight that makes sense in terms of the product the competition. [07:27] Where what are the goals and the and the aspirations of our of our clients and of the product but? [07:32] it has to be [07:34] Strategic but it also has to be inspiring right so finding that. [07:37] finding that sweet spot for creative team of [07:39] a line or an insight that’s correct and on target with the business, but also really inspiring to a creative team. I think is really our goal and so when and you know when you’ve hit it right because the work speaks for it. [07:52] When you have a good strategy going in a really crisp. [07:55] a solid approach [07:56] you see really good work come out of it like I I truly believe that what you put in is what you’re going to get out from your teams and we’ve seen that I think on a lot of together and they’re they’re times. They’re all bring a line to J and he’ll be like I don’t really know what that means. That’s not really working for me and so it is it is a partnership and figuring out. [08:14] What is going to be the thing that inspires? [08:16] ideas and world’s and and brands frankly and [08:20] I like to always say you know the best strategy, but even good strategy is creative right like you need to be creative and that Strat line that we’re going to use to kind of [08:31] Evaluate all the work that’s going to come next. [08:34] So we want that to be sexy if you will write like you know so so. [08:40] It starts right there. That’s where the creativity the creative process begins right there. How are we going to create? [08:48] About what the ask is and then only then we’ll will be able to kind of ideate. [08:54] And hopefully come up with some good ideas. [08:57] You know sure and that’s when we think about it as from a from the [09:01] reporting the news desk side of things reporting on marketing. [09:04] That’s strategic line. That’s straight line. [09:07] That you see Jason that’s that’s what bubbles up to us as well, they oh that’s the campaign that use gamification to reach doctors you know and made it you know competitive played out their competitive. You know or that’s that’s the one that got parents to talk to their kids about you know the risk of suicide or something you know because they they had the insight that kids weren’t afraid to talk about this but the parents were and [09:25] Yeah, they’re all starts with that insight. That’s what really you’re right. That’s what that’s what jumps out right. I would imagine any topic like I don’t know exactly how you all do it, but I would imagine it’s something like okay. We got a list of topics and and like you know what’s going to elicit the [09:38] best sort of conversation [09:40] Right, so like you’ve got to get creative with those initial topics and and the best ones you’re like oh my god. I can talk about this for days right like it just [09:47] Who’s going and I’m really excited about it and I suppose passionate about it like so it all starts. [09:53] With a real exciting strap line. I also think. [09:56] that like something that is maybe a little bit of a misconception and I think sometimes people get caught in it is that [10:02] strategy has to happen in this in a silo, and we have to do all all of our work and then we can go and brief the creatives and tell them kind of this evening but I’ve actually found in my career that the earlier you bring creatives into the strategic process of [10:16] whether it’s listening to the Research whether it’s you know working on the creative brief Together or I I can’t tell you the amount of times that [10:23] I had the kernels or the Beginnings of a strategy that a copywriter or art director was able to help me bring to life more clearly in a line or an award because that’s [10:33] what their experts in their experts in simplifying and [10:36] finding clarity and things where maybe it can be a little muddy right and so [10:40] I think [10:41] that’s another piece of like kind of you know if for people listening and advice. I would give is that it is an integration and the best brief in the best strategies are going to come from keeping your creatives involved. [10:52] Throughout the whole process really symbi yeah at the Beginning stages it is. [10:57] It is a two-way street, and I I dare I even say simma. I want to at the Beginning stages. There is no strategy and creative. It’s just we we are one. It’s created. That’s part of the creative process. I could have intelligent. Yes, so all right. I said it now. It is recorded. You know that’s yeah. Yeah now bring us along to the next bullet point you know we wanted to touch on where it traditional agency models. [11:21] perhaps fall short is that kind of the [11:23] maybe one of the biggest sort of pitfalls is that [11:27] there’s too much of a silo between creative and strategy and word you see other you know areas where there needs to be improvement there interesting yes. [11:35] I’d imagine that silo and you know is a big topic for a multiple levels so write like look. [11:41] You have like traditional independent agencies like small ones right like so we were and I have a unique seat. I was here when there was just four of. [11:49] Us and all of a sudden we’re a hundred. [11:51] And I don’t even know how many so it’s it’s it’s mind-blowing to see the expansion and and you know we’re just making stuff up as we go and then now we’re like okay cool. [12:01] Here’s a four eight thousand. I don’t even know how many how many in the Gene is I forget at some it’s thousands of people across the globe and like. [12:09] It’s quite a culture shock not. [12:12] Internal culture, but just you know just the term culture, but right you have these independent agencies right well. We were super entrepreneurial we all wore different hat. [12:21] You whatever you can write start to be yeah. Yeah very start of me right like you whatever it takes to succeed. [12:27] You do and you do it and we did it. [12:30] But we didn’t have the resources right like we weren’t like an old movie you know we weren’t we we didn’t have all the all the resources of all those and then. [12:39] You kind of have you know speaking of Olga think about wpp companies. You know you think about these big companies. [12:45] These holding companies where you have the larger network. [12:48] right [12:48] But what are you you’re one of? [12:51] You’re one of bunch of other ad agencies in the network. [12:55] All buying you know. [12:57] Fighting going in one pocket you know to Rob Peter to pay Paul like it just is what it is right. That’s what they do they’re they they pitch it against each other it’s bizarre. [13:06] Yeah and [13:08] Basically that’s an inherited inherently siloed model in itself right and then obviously that trickles down into the how any company just structured. [13:17] we’re always [13:18] sometimes to siloed in an hour [13:22] You know in our thinking. [13:23] And I think that’s what we’re trying to to alleviate and I think. [13:27] with the idea of [13:29] indigene and and then you know the ability to use the data at various stages at least that’s kind of this this thread of synergy that we could kind of [13:38] you know maybe use as a lifeline along the way doesn’t mean we’re not going to. [13:43] creatives not going to go do their own thing sometimes and strats not going to do ours or account’s not going to do there but [13:49] You know we try it all. [13:50] Yeah, you know. [13:52] Yeah, yeah, I it it’s interesting actually I have been part of other kind of like. [13:56] You know we’ve all been at 80s in the past. I’ve been part of other acquisitions as well and been at the big networks. [14:01] You know a company that wasn’t that was independent and got out and [14:04] I just think there is something really special about. [14:08] The fact that our leadership here made the kind of conscious decision that like we’re not going to just join another Holding Company right they were really. [14:15] Looking for the right. [14:17] Partner and the right partnership and I think that. [14:20] they wanted to find like a lock and key and more of a puzzle piece rather than maybe like a duplicative model in terms of event in terms of an acquisition and [14:28] I think they did it well with indigene because [14:30] there’s things that indigen can do that. We didn’t even know was fully possible in terms of data and intelligence and then there’s things that. [14:36] They’re like I’ve been in meetings with folks at indigene and kind of their very very impressed by kind of our ability to tell stories and to kind of bring things to life in a way. That’s really human and creative and so I think. [14:49] you know this complimentary type of symbiotic relationship between [14:54] maybe acquiring company and the company that’s been acquired is something that I think is unique about us and it’s something that I haven’t seen at other kind of large. [15:03] large holding companies or large large models so [15:07] I think [15:08] I go to really long rabbit. Hole of what I think companies generally don’t do well, but that’s that’s besides the point. I I just think that when it comes to maybe like where we have a little bit of an edge. I think it it really is about the complementary nature of indigene and cult. [15:22] Versus another ones you get acquired and you’re like okay, so like what is this? What is this mean like? What does this actually mean right? We’re going to give right yeah? Yeah, it’s all politics. Yeah right and we just another you know agency for them to Rob Peter to give Paul the type of thing right. Yeah, I hear you don’t want to. [15:39] Pair with chocolate alright you want to do you want. [15:41] Chocolate and peanut butter alright you want you one of the amount of two things that are available. [15:47] Okay well, I like it’s stepping it up a notch they’re seeing. [15:50] It yeah, you know what I’m saying like I hear you absolutely the complementary nature. [15:54] Got it. Yeah absolutely let’s talk about CI in Action now. You know we’ve been talking about sort of a theoretical level. Let’s talk about how you work together. [16:01] Talk about how creative intelligence fits in when you’re working on a typical. [16:05] brand engagement or activation or something [16:07] yeah, I mean look I think. [16:13] there is that [16:14] it fits in everywhere it fits in at every step it fits in on on every project frankly I could give you examples of a CRM email that we’re kicking off to work on and all the way up to the highest kind of form of business. We do at a company which is. [16:28] our new business pitches and developing our business and growing our business and [16:32] I think [16:34] we have [16:35] made a very concerted effort at every step at every level of Project [16:40] to pause and ask the question. [16:42] You know is there something within indigenous repertoire in terms of their data and technology capabilities that we can tap into. [16:50] To make this project smarter to make it more efficient to make it more operationally sound whether it’s me as a planner the account team the creative team. [16:58] so that Ethos of creative intelligence [17:01] there there is a very deliberate effort to. [17:05] make sure that that is included in every type of project that we do obviously it comes to life and maybe bigger ways when it’s things like new business, but [17:13] it is it whether it’s big or small. It’s something that we’re that we’re trying to kind of tap into and vice versa. I think there’s been a lot of moments. [17:20] where [17:21] Indigene has tapped us to help make. [17:24] Things more creative to help tell a story to help. [17:27] you know move move the needle with the client where maybe we were stuck and you know we needed a little bit more of a storytelling model and so [17:33] I think that it it fits. [17:36] Anywhere and everywhere you want it to fit. [17:38] You know I can make the analogy like. [17:41] you know [17:42] every client has multiple- agencies. They’re working with right and different different partners. [17:47] And they don’t want to have to manage them right. [17:49] but what they do want is that anyone who touches their brand at any moment, but they want them to be informed and they want them to be informed with the best possible– right you know information available and [18:01] and obviously the they want all their content to tap into. [18:06] using the latest [18:07] technology be at AI be at the AI models that into Gene creates and the data collection that we have. [18:14] and they just [18:15] in order to make the message. [18:17] sort of synergistic across all these agencies across all the different disciplines and [18:23] individual agency right kind of just speak the same. [18:26] story and obviously [18:29] that shouldn’t happen just when we have the the brand planning where we’re like. Hey, let’s come into our office and have an inter-agency meeting. [18:37] and write that that happens once twice a year we need that kind of thing to happen sort of daily and I think that’s [18:44] another area that that this idea at least the philosophy of [18:49] creative intelligence we can hopefully bring something new you know to even that to the work style with our clients and iterate. [18:58] Yeah, and you can always remind people like if they’re like hey why we have in this minion and say well creative has to be more intelligent and Intelligence has to be more creative right and you’re right. You’re right okay. [19:09] I like it now. Obviously, it’s not all sun raised and moonbeams or moon beams and sunrise in this whole in the Gene called health marriage that we’re talking about here. [19:19] Sometimes you have to put your foot down and say hey. [19:21] AI is missing the Mark here. What are the pitfalls? You know when we’re you know kind of trying to make that creative more intelligent and overlaying artificial intelligence into Pharma marketing. [19:31] all right so there’s [19:33] there’s the AI models in terms of what in the Gene uses in towards like how they build their their data mining and understanding right like [19:42] I think that is unparalleled personally you know from what I [19:46] kind of and I’m just starting to understand it. You know it’s taking a while like this. Is you know. [19:50] I drew pictures in college mom. [19:53] I did not go to the data classes. [19:56] make sure your mother’s right proud that you finally found your way to the analytics side somehow Jason [20:02] so so there’s that there’s that AI which I think. [20:05] And we’ve been using AI models for a long time. [20:08] But then there’s the the creative side right and AI this is where I think it’s missing the mark. [20:12] now [20:13] you know we use it all the time like and we started dabbling it right and and no doubt we’re going to get. [20:18] We’re going to get some awesome, art we’re going to get a manate. [20:21] floating over the Himalayas with you know with Butterfly Wings and like you know wow, that’s that’s [20:27] cool [20:27] except [20:28] it [20:29] I know instantly when I see that picture and I think we all do. [20:32] That that’s an AI generated piece of art. [20:35] It’s a piece of content right. What does it miss? I think I think. [20:39] There’s like this level of authenticity. There’s there’s [20:42] At its core. It’s it’s unemotional. [20:44] alright, I think that’s [20:46] that’s eventually it will be it’s kind of like I imagine AI even the [20:50] Beginning is of AI robotics they’re very not emotional and I just watched that movie atlas the other day. Just came out on Netflix and again. It’s like another one of those like you know once once AI because [21:01] Takes over and becomes truly sentient, that’s where it’s it has a level of emotion and I think that’s what we’re missing with AI in terms of how we’re using it. [21:11] and obviously [21:12] look [21:12] it’s another tool in our creative toolbox if it shouldn’t be the only one I use this analogy it’s like. [21:19] When when Adobe when Photoshop and all these all these the sweet of Adobe products? [21:24] Came out those are tools. [21:25] That doesn’t make you a designer if you know how to even open. [21:30] Photoshop write like your [21:32] best friends Brothers nephews cousin just because they have Adobe suite does not make them a designer you want to use them for your your next logo cool. [21:43] like [21:44] alright, what about all the the years of understanding how to [21:47] the principles of this design and understanding this and color theories and all this stuff that we’ve been taught over the you know for for a long period of time in our in our discipline. [21:59] But we have a computer and that that’s just a tool alright. It’s just another tool and I think that’s what AI is and and it can’t replace. [22:07] You know human connection and I think once we once we integrate it and becomes more just sort of an enhancement upon all this stuff think about like. [22:17] Things like co-pilot you know alright like have you I don’t know if you dabbled in it and no but it’s pretty cool. You could take notes we take notes and [22:24] honestly sometimes it takes better notes then some of our Junior [22:27] you know [22:28] a cow people like [22:31] there’s Jay making fun of people no it does it because it’s it takes out emotion you know what I’m saying so it gives you nice notes and you can say. [22:38] It’ll say Mark said this and you’re like oh my god like that’s pretty. [22:42] Pretty diligent notes you used to go. [22:44] Five copious note taking yes were you a co-pilot? [22:50] but eventually [22:51] we need to just get all our tools. It’s just it just [22:54] To just happen, you know yeah. [22:57] I yeah, I need a neural weight. Yeah neural link it together yeah and [23:02] I agree, there was everything. [23:03] Jade that I think I think like. [23:05] when I think about it from [23:07] the role of what we do right as advertisers our job is to make people feel a certain way about our brands right that way that we’ve [23:17] Defined in our strategy. [23:19] and [23:20] a fundamentally [23:22] our job is to understand the nuances and the complexities of human emotion right. [23:27] which [23:28] I think that AI is this really really powerful tool to make a smarter to make us more efficient to make us be able to aggregate information of like you know high volumes information and quicker ways and [23:39] there’s all these really powerful benefits. [23:42] But at the end of the day what AI at the moment at least can’t do is. [23:47] dissect the nuances [23:49] of human emotion right which at the end of the day when you look at the fundamental role that we’re playing it’s to. [23:54] Deeply understand our customers right and that’s complicated. It’s psychology and it’s just those layers and those nuances that when someone says a they actually mean b. [24:04] Alright, that’s not something that. [24:05] AI can fully understand just yet. [24:08] Right, so as a planner I it’s a really. [24:11] powerful tool in making me faster smarter I can get I can get Smart on a topic really really fast now because of [24:17] the different AI models and even some of the some of the kind of intelligence and imaging for that provides us but [24:23] at the end of the day right when it comes to really getting to that deep human insight. There’s a fundamental. [24:29] Advantage I have over AI because I am a human and I am a person and that is something that. [24:34] That that level of complexity of the human mind that we have to tap into is not fully. [24:39] There and for my own career longevity sake I hope it doesn’t fully get there. [24:44] Because I really like my job, but you know I I think that that’s where you need the complement of. [24:51] people and humanity alongside these really intelligent powerful data tools [24:56] to to find [24:58] like that that most optimised version and so I think. [25:02] people shouldn’t be [25:03] scared of AI they shouldn’t see it as a threat. I think it’s a tool that’s going to make us really smart. [25:08] and [25:09] it allows us I think as a as. [25:11] a creative and planners to focus [25:13] on the areas that we want to focus on right which is [25:16] emotive work [25:17] deep insights right we don’t need to spend all of our time trying to like organise information and sift through large data sets and things like that so. [25:25] It’s been a really big positive. I think in terms of you know our day-to-day work. [25:30] and has only allowed us to kind of be smarter but yeah, they’re just [25:35] you know [25:35] AI won’t understand a girl’s heartbreak when she goes through a breakup right. It’s just not it’s just not a level of emotion that [25:42] That’s there yet right and you said it you know you said it seemed like the Deep human insight. You know there are other words the universal truth. You know AI can spit out a million manatees floating over mountain ranges. [25:52] And then maybe every million or so iterations are going to get like. [25:56] you know they’re going to capture that powerful memory of [25:59] of when you were a child and you were looking up at an airplane and you know and sort of tap into those you know things that we get because we’re humans so that’s the on that’s the unmet need where the human and creative intelligence kind of come together. [26:11] But the human is still needed. I want to finish off with one last question. I think it’s really you know always great to ask. [26:18] about this idea of how [26:19] these new Innovations will impact the Old agency client relationship, but you know how would it impact the agency model in the next five years you know what is that going to look like and we’ll finish up with that one. Yeah, so look. [26:30] I guess if you think about where we were right the history of advertising you know agencies it used to be. [26:36] Our art was here. Copy was here. Hey give me a copy line. Give me you know and then like you. They did their own things talk over or talk about siloed. [26:46] Then it used to be then they eventually merge just like hey we need a team. It’s got to be it’s got to be art and copy. He’s got to be a team because they want is little more visual one might have a little bit more. [26:56] You know cerebral. [26:58] words that might [26:59] Better the creative work and then I remember. [27:03] I remember very well like I was at Ogilvie at the time when we were very siloed it was. [27:09] They literally had different companies you have digital you know you had and then you had like traditional advertising and like we think they they didn’t even let us sit on the same floor, so I just have to go to the Digital guys and be like they were I don’t know what they were doing. They were making websites. You didn’t even really think it was advertising. [27:26] Yet. [27:27] We would come up with some big ideas and then we have to go down explain it to them after it was already sold to the client and then now they have to. [27:35] Digitally bring it to life somehow in a banner or whatever it was at that point. [27:40] And it was like. [27:41] Talk about silo, it was weird. [27:43] And then and then eventually that we did away with that and and we merge it to one. [27:48] Right to be more fluid and it was like it’s just another. [27:52] another part of like [27:53] the the medium like just because it’s digital that’s just the medium of communication and that is not. [27:59] You know that is not the core of the idea. [28:02] Alright, so obviously I think this trend is continuing. [28:05] And it’s the same thing with that with the AI right like what how do we. [28:09] Fully become you know an integrated using artificial intelligence be it. [28:15] Data you know like the what in the Gene brings or be it like tools. [28:19] Whatever it is and it should be. [28:22] Invisible just like all those other trends that that had kind of have gone away. They’re invisible now. You wouldn’t know you just know that there’s a creative team or here’s a team of people right that work together for for a common goals the same thing with the tools and I think that’s what the evolution of an ad Agency will be. [28:41] you know [28:41] there’s no digital team anymore. There’s no e business unit anymore, it’s all. [28:45] Know it’s diffused with that within the organization or throughout the organization exactly there’s no AI component it just is like it’s just part of the process. You know like yeah, it’s going to be part of everything that we do and [28:56] I think it’s going to get more and more integrated and [28:59] yeah, I I think there’s certain I think in certain ways we’re going to become more efficient because of these technologies like AI and [29:06] You’re going to see again. It’ll it’s yeah. It is. It is like an invisible Force it’s just it needs to be like co-piloting. Yeah like it’s just there it’s their if you click IT cool and like you know. I’m using that as a metaphor it’s not like we can click. [29:17] Which is what it’s just there and I I kind of go back to something I said before I think what it’s going to do is like and I I think and I know you talked about kind of like. [29:25] We used to we used it’s like there was this group and we had an idea and then the idea. I think it given to these other people that. [29:31] Maybe disseminated. I think we’re going to go back to a world where. [29:35] Maybe not not go back. We’re going to kind of come maybe 360 back to a world because of these technologies because of the official efficiencies that we can have operationally. [29:43] we as a team are going to be able to go back and [29:46] focus our energy on the core of it which is the ideas. [29:49] Alright and I think that. [29:50] that that world of being able to [29:52] look I think no matter what technology comes. [29:55] brands and people [29:57] and human beings aren’t going to fundamentally change and [30:00] we are job will forever be to unlock. [30:02] that most [30:04] insightful and motivating idea and bring it to life and I think all of this work is going to allow us to. [30:09] refocus our energy on that you know instead of maybe like [30:12] you know what’s the digital plan? What’s this plan? What’s that plan right? I think that’s stuff will get a lot more automated and a lot more and we can kind of refocus our energy on. [30:21] The thing that and I think it’s kind of in the DNA of cult itself right like it was a group of guys in a room coming up with. [30:28] a lot of cool ideas, yeah [30:31] Yeah, I know don’t say that. [30:33] Don’t say that in the strategy. [30:35] hearings, no, you know what you mean when you set up I [30:40] Mean yeah, I haven’t thought about I haven’t thought about it 100% like that. I kind of dig that if you think about. [30:45] If you think about like look look at like um. [30:47] look at streaming or cable right now like [30:50] In a weird way, it’s coming back. It’s it’s eventually going to be. [30:54] all the street everyone’s like [30:56] got a stream this but this this this and now you’re like a cable is going away but like now it’s going to become. [31:01] If you start seeing they’re all merging and basically you’re just going to get me one. [31:05] Cable or whatever you want to call it one subscription one service. [31:09] Of whatever streaming platforms I want. [31:12] Same thing it’s just. [31:13] It’s just the same thing as as what cable was but I got a hundred channels like it’s it was all siloed. [31:18] and now they’re all starting to merge together because it’s like the model doesn’t work and [31:23] let let the technology which is also. [31:25] And and give us. [31:27] The best content we could possibly imagine in terms of entertainment. [31:31] but like [31:32] so that’s that that changed for the better, but like the delivery and it’s kind of it’s kind of the same thing you said let the let the content that we create we’ll get only we’ll only get better and it’s like how we [31:43] how we the the ploy or [31:46] where all and the agency can evolved to you know? [31:49] And I also think that like there’s a point in time where everyone used to say well now with like digital blowing up like like TV is dead like we don’t need TV and it’s like look. [31:57] a hundred mediums can get introduced write 100 mediums can come out whether it’s social media whether it’s [32:02] like [32:03] connected TV but [32:05] the mentally the way human beings. [32:07] receive information is either you’re watching something or you’re reading something right and so [32:13] you know sure we’re going to have to be a little bit more. [32:16] specific to channels and things like that but the fundamental idea of [32:19] creating [32:20] good content whether it used to be a print out and now it’s a Reddit ad whether it used to be like a TV spot and now it’s you know an ad in between your different streamings. It’s still it’s it’s at its heart. [32:30] advertising [32:31] at least in my opinion and the goals that we have. [32:34] Have not changed and the way in which we communicate with people and touch people’s. [32:39] minds and Souls [32:40] has not changed our mediums might have changed but our fundamental goal is still the same and I think that sometimes in this world of. [32:47] Fragmentation and there’s a lot of buzzwords that get thrown around. [32:51] We forget that sometimes right and now with with indigene kind of in the mix with us. We just get to do that same. [32:56] route goal in a much smarter way [32:59] Which I think is exciting. [33:00] absolutely have a great well said I’m going to stop you there because you just [33:03] crystallized the whole last half an hour of the conversation Seema it’s really fits into a familiar pattern of a lot of transformation that we’ve undergone as a society and an industry. [33:14] And I want to thank you so much for articulating so well this idea of creative intelligence. [33:19] And how that requires a symbiotic relationship not only? [33:22] between creative and planning but also using technology in a way that [33:26] enhances human creativity without replacing so pleasure to talk with you both. [33:30] Thank you. Yeah same here that was cool and we’ll get this recording so we can tell any superiors that we articulated grave intelligence so perfect. We’ll just give them. Thank you. Yes, just see what just say click here, let’s listen here. [33:44] So that was Jason Kirshenblatt executive creative director and Seema Keswani svp strategic planner from CultHealth. This has been Marc Iskowitz for MM+M [33:54] see you next time.