After years of focusing on omnichannel transformation, are pharmas finally now activating successfully? And has it been worth the effort? Hale Advisors’ Zoe Dunn and Larry Dobrow discuss the current landscape, the game changes at the pharmas that are out in front, and accelerators for shifting from siloed to seamless and campaigns to content.

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Hello, my name is Larry dobrow. I’m the Editor in Chief of mmm. And I am thrilled for you to plug into this episode of m Eminem TV. Today. We are joined by our good friend and one of my favorite people to talk to Zoe dun. Who is the CEO and president of hail advisors Zoe. Thank you so much for being here today.

Thank you.

We’re gonna be talking a little bit about Omni Channel marketing. Yeah, even as it is one of the industry buzzwords, I think it’s still pretty misunderstood. Yeah,


would say so I think you know for our industry, it’s misunderstood and we are all aspiring it is definitely the new buzzword there hear it it’s kind of like social media in 20 years ago, you know,

it’s funny because over the course of you know, our agency 100 conversations on the channel came up and I’m saying like a good like 95% of them, right because this is something the industry wants to do and wants to do well and has to do well at this point what what are people getting wrong about their almost their Baseline assumptions about Omni Channel and we coming at it from possibly the wrong place in some instances.

Endemic, totally removed our opportunity to communicate to Physicians and nurse practitioners and and Health Care Professionals. Omni-channel really is I think the hope of the industry to really cut through that and deliver that much more personalized experience that they’re lacking with not being able to gain access with their sales force in the same way that they used to and budgets are being shifted from those areas. I think that that big pivot that happened during the pandemic which

has not swung back the other way.

Exactly exactly which I think is a great benefit because it’s due time for us to explore these other channels collaboratively in order to reach our targets and then on the patient side, that’s something else entirely, you know, we are desperate to handle patient engagement in a more meaningful way. This is where really really targeted personalized Communications can make a big difference, right?

Each individual person can receive the message that’s most meaningful to them. And that’s you know, that’s the greatest opportunity. I think for Pharma, but maybe why they’ve been kind of trying to figure out how to how to make this happen. It’s it’s not as comfortable a technique as they’re really used to they’re used to investing in their

Salesforce. They’re used to DTC. Yeah ready is the business for some of the things we’re talking about.

There’s a lot of companies that are trying right now, you know, we’ve seen most companies are piloting in some capacity usually choosing a brand or two that that they want to work with and a Channel or to that they want to Pilot in. So, for example, we see a lot of work in next best action or working with Field Force emails. That’s kind of a safe Proving Ground when it comes to Omni channel.

It’s not scary. It’s familiar a little bit

Yeah, and we’ve already been doing some of that modular work as an industry for a number of years now, right? We’ve been kind of crafting.

Modular message and allowing our reps to personalize that message to physician. So it’s a really great starting Place same thing with Banner advertising, you know, A/B Testing kind of trying different subject lines trying different, you know calls to action trying different, you know, interacting putting those claims together with those messages in a more modular way. So we see companies really trying that they’re also investing in the technology that they need to support that right and that’s a really big lift. I think it’s expensive to put into place a whole new technology platform to gather data from those customer interactions. And then there’s some issues with privacy in our industry that always other Industries don’t really have I mean everyone has issues with privacy, but our industry, you know, it’s very hard for us to get to that consumer level data or even physician Action level data unless we’re integrating with a lot of different technology platforms. So that’s a big lift. That’s

A big technology investment and then the other thing that we really see people doing trying to get ready is changing the processes and the people that they have in their organization to really make sure they’ve got the right people that they’re really knowledgeable and informed about Omni Channel and that they have the right processes in place, you know, our area of expertise is on the the governance the digital governance side. So we really sit between commercial marketing and the promotional review teams. So of interest to us is how these modular content pieces are moving through that review process and getting to Market and there’s some concern that there’s some hold up there’s concern with 2253 submissions, you know and everything going smoothly so that all the good work that the commercial marketers are doing with their agency partners all that personalization is really flowing through and getting into Market in an easy way.

Is there a I don’t want to say why should I do want to say is there a philos?

Chemical adjustment that needs to take place at the same time. I mean, is it a matter of you know, making sure that everybody who’s going to be a part of doing this and doing this well in theory is on you know is aware of like here is why this has to happen. Is that the kind of thing I got to drive through as well.

Absolutely. You know, we believe that change management is really the key to everything and I know that’s kind of a gimme change management. Like of course,

nobody likes change you manage it you

manage the change, you know, but there are a few key components to that. So the first one is knowledge. Your organization really has to be on the same page about what Omni channel is. We see a lot of pain right now at even just the simple description of defining what Omni channel is for the organization. I’m sure you saw that at your agency session on it, right? So, you know knowledge is key knowledge is power and so spreading that out across your organization is really really important that includes upskilling each.

Of the key areas, each of the key stakeholder areas in understanding. What modular content is what omnichannel is how we’re going to develop that system that it’s you know, creating a matrix approach to marketing which is a bit different than what we’re used to the key is that that you really need to help everyone in the organization know how to apply that modular way of thinking so they have to understand that there’s you know, your your calls to action your individualized personalized messaging and then for me what’s most important is those claims making sure that those claims are validated they’re verified that they’re tied to that modularized content so that we can be automated in the way. We’re serving it up. That’s you know, right now, I think that’s one of the biggest challenges because you can create all the best personalized content you want but we have an obligation we have to make sure that those claims are scientifically accurate and that they follow that content appropriately through that.

Process if it’s promotional in nature and so, you know, I think that’s another really important thing to make sure everyone understands the basics of that and then I think organizations can really succeed. We do that through communication and training. Those are the two key areas that we think are most important


reaching people and creating that change

when you are doing the training when you are doing the communication, where are some of the areas where you see people kind of stumble, where are the where are the, you know, the places that you can take a wrong turn and go down an alley that’s gonna cost you time and money and everything else.

So everyone’s really busy.

And no one wants to sit through hours and hours of training. We just had an experience recently where a company was implementing a new platform for their promotional review team to overlay on Viva to really handle a library of content of claims and modules and the training would is pretty burdensome. It’s learning something new. It’s learning a new technology platform and it’s really really hard for people to understand that in their workflow and make it meaningful to them and and bring some ease to them because otherwise it just feels like one more thing that they’re gonna have to know how to do and is it really worth it? Is it really worth it for them to change what they’re doing if it’s not broke don’t fix it. So, you know internal communication can’t be thrown away. It’s how your positioning the value offering here for Omni Channel why it’s so important for the organization to move in this direction and how everyone can change their jobs just enough.

To really make sure that it’s streamlined for those days for it. Make sure


in order to change everything you’re doing but you do have to amend the way that you’re doing things to make room for this and so those Communications are sensitive, you know, and and making sure that you’re in tune with each individual team’s needs what they need in order to feel confident about it. I think that’s really the


The companies that do a good job of communicating that sell it. Well, what are some of the commonalities you know, what are some of the what are the one, you know, the clients that you work with that you almost like you want to give them a little

badge and say right on you nailed this thing. So they’ve found the value proposition and this is really interesting because I don’t think that Omni channel for the life science Industry is quite proven yet in terms of the ROI. I mean, let’s think about the huge investment that companies are making to get there. They’ve set up Omni Channel teams. They’ve hired people who’s title is Omni channel to direct those teams. They’ve pulled together people cross functionally from across the organization to make it work. They bought technology platforms. They bought into these technology platforms and now they’re having to set them up and launch them and I think you know, that’s a heavy heavy lift and we’re not exactly sure. Is that going to generate more scripts? Is it going to lead to Better Health outcomes for our patients?

You know proof is in the pudding. We’ll have to see but in the meantime we have to be able to communicate actively for the people in our organizations what the value proposition is for them. If we can’t do that, then it’s not going to be meaningful think about the idea of not having one size fits all marketing messaging for everyone and really being patient Centric for the first time like really putting your money where your mouth is on that one and saying we are going to develop good Communications that are gonna drive better health outcomes because that’s for me. That’s what it’s all about. That’s why I wake up every morning and do what I do is that I have a core belief, you know, my dad’s live to be 94 years old why because of the incredible advances in our medical system that prevented his parents from making it to 60 and we need to make sure that we as an industry are doing a great job of bringing that marketing message to people to help them to live those better lives. So, you know, I think that’s why we’re doing it that’s

Me that’s the value proposition. That’s what you need to be communicating internally at your company that we are doing this to be more personalized to be more relevant to the people that we’re trying to help.

There’s probably a silly question. But are there luddites are there people that are saying you know what we’ve been doing. It’s been working well enough so let’s uh, you know, thank you for your Omni Channel, but you know, give me you give me my rep materials

of course and you know for many many years as someone who works in the digital space I can tell you I’ve heard this pushback, right? There’s a lot of sales reps out there. They don’t want to lose their jobs. I don’t want them to lose their jobs. I have a great respect for the sales rep process for that that personal touchpoint that they have with Physicians, which is critical. I mean, there are some aspects of medicine where that is the most important touch Point bringing that rep in to have a really good clear conversation with the physician or the PA or the NPA, right? So I think what we don’t want is for all of those touch points to go away what we’re looking for is to make them work harder and stronger. So sure there are people who are saying, you know, no what we’ve done is working fine and I

Will say to them. Well, you know, you’re also driving cars that you know figure out which lane you’re in while you’re driving them and that’s a pretty cool feature. So if we’re you know things keep evolving the world doesn’t stand still so we have to grow with it and we have to evolve with it. And you know, it doesn’t mean that we throw out what’s been working. It means that we amend it and enhance it and that’s why you know piloting Omni channel in things like rept triggered emails or in conjunction with what the field force is doing what a great opportunity for a marketing and sales to finally come together. I’ve never had the mega Summit, you know, absolutely. I’ve never seen a better opportunity for the two to meet

five years from now. Where’s our Omni Channel Journey gonna take us our people gonna get on board quickly. Is this the kind of thing that you think is going to be sort of a you know, gradual gradual gradual gradual and all of a sudden you wake up and hey, we’re

all there.

I think several things are going to have to evolve and innovate in terms of

Communication Platforms in general I think you know we’ll keep growing and finding better ways to keep people safe in a digital State while still making these communications relevant and meaningful to them, you know privacy is very important to us as a digital governance company. Trust me. I want some structure in place and I want to know that people are engaging with this content in a safe way. So I think all of those changes in the industry, they’re going to get forced right? We’re already seeing that’s been moving that started in Europe. It’s moving to the US

common whether we like it or not.

That’s right. And I actually think instead of shutting everything down that’s really going to open a world of opportunity for us to feel safer when we’re in a digital state, but I do think that therefore we’re gonna develop some new ways to personalize this information. I think we’re gonna really find new ways to be meaningful to both patients and Physicians as an industry and five years from now, I mean,

My hope that we’re leveraging this type of platform really naturally that that technology is built into the way that we’re doing business. We’re more efficient. We’re more effective at engaging

Zoe one last bonus question. Okay, this is mmm TV big music theme around our agency 100 coverage this year. What is the last song that you listen to?


by the way, I should say that people in this business have a really good taste

of Music.

Really? Yeah. Well now I feel like there’s a lot of pressure. Yeah. Yeah, you know what my the last song that I listen to that. I really really love is Childish Gambino’s. This is America. Oh, I listen to it on repeat. It’s one of my favorites.

So we love talking to you on camera off. You’re one of a good friends and a good supporter of mmm. Thank you so much for doing this. This is great.

It was so much fun. Thank you so much. Larry for having me.

Absolutely for mmm. I’m Larry dobrow many. Thanks and be well.