Innovation in action: Bridging strategy and execution in life sciences

[00:01] For flexible we’re able to really mix and match our technology and our services to what the client needs at the moment. [00:10] And we don’t need. [00:11] a 6 million dollars of a retainer fee [00:14] to climb on board where willing to engage with these clients for the long term and be a true partner the pragmatic innovation and applications around artificial intelligence. [00:24] are going to be [00:26] back off as administrative and frankly enabling a lot of the services that we do today. [00:32] To do them better do them better. [00:37] Hello and welcome. I’m Marc Iskowitz the editor at large for MM+M. [00:42] And I’m pleased to be joined by two executives from ClinicalMind [00:45] Tom Sproat chief strategy officer and James Lewis who’s co-founder of 11/10 Consulting and now managing director of ClinicalMind [00:53] We’re here to discuss innovation and action. [00:56] bridging strategy and execution in life sciences [01:04] Tom and James welcome to the MM+M Podcast [01:07] Thanks, it’s great to be here. Thanks Marc good to be here. [01:09] Absolutely great to have you both. Let’s just kind of take a step back for a moment. [01:14] You know there’s a lot of hot topics and conversations in the biopharma. [01:18] world today from market access and AI [01:21] to transforming field operations and connecting them with marketing. [01:25] Today- we’re going to discuss the gap between the conversation around those topics. [01:29] And taking action on them. [01:31] and April [01:32] clinical mind acquired 1110 innovation which is a strategic Consulting firm. [01:37] to help clients seems like and quickly translate big ideas into [01:41] commercial activation and so you know a lot of the [01:44] organizations that I speak to definitely have a vision. [01:47] for execution [01:49] but implementing it is is kind of worth things can fall down. [01:52] It seems like this acquisition was meant to [01:54] solidify the gaps between a lot of these different industry catalysts that we talk about. [01:59] And making sure the execution gets done right by you know making sure that strategy stays hand in hand. [02:06] with everything [02:07] Tom and James are going to talk more about that. [02:09] About what just start off by having you both kind of introduce yourself to our audience and give us a quick overview. [02:14] Of 1110 and clinical mind and tell me you want to get us started there. [02:18] Sure, thanks. It is a great time in the industry to be a chief strategy officer with all these shifts. [02:24] And landscape and rapid changes coming along. [02:27] I joined Jean martell and her team at clinical mind back in 2014 so about a decade ago. [02:33] And Sam has grown from the typical small four person startup. [02:38] back in 2012 to now a PE backed and what we like to call a [02:43] scaled multifunction tech-enabled service provider which I got from the [02:48] lek special report last year [02:50] on medcom trends, but it really fits. [02:53] And we have about 330 employees today. [02:57] our Solutions include- marketing and creative services medcom including pubs [03:03] training technology and of course data Analytics [03:07] And as you mentioned we just acquired 1110 a couple of months ago. [03:11] And really excited about the capabilities and the extension. [03:15] That they bring for us to provide solutions for our clients. [03:18] As you know one of the growing realm of pee backed. [03:23] Pharma commercialization platforms welcome to the conversation I mean that’s you know are obviously a growing area. [03:29] And they’re making a real. [03:31] A real run you know for Pharma marketing budgets, you know we see an ra-100 this year we saw. [03:37] About 20% of the 100 RP back to commercialization platforms, but their commanding a third. [03:44] of Pharma budgets of Pharma [03:47] from a marketing revenue you know so it’s really impressive so definitely punching above their weight. [03:51] James [03:52] Yeah, absolutely well Mark thanks for having us again. We’re super excited to be here and more broadly. [03:57] I’m very excited to be a part of the clinical mind family now. [04:01] As you mentioned James Lewis I’m the co-founder of 1110 innovation partners. [04:05] We actually started back in 2017. [04:08] With the mission of making innovation and health care more accessible. [04:12] We’re going to talk about today. How that word innovation is is probably overused. [04:17] Yeah, I actually started my career in Consulting and then moved into venture capital investing in a family office. [04:23] And we were really focused on investing in health care. [04:26] And as many of you know at the peak of that digital health was commanding 30 billion and Investments per year. [04:33] And so everybody was trying to invest in innovation. [04:36] But but really what we saw is there was a lack of collaboration across the industry. [04:41] so [04:42] to really Drive innovation one has to collaborate with. [04:45] clinicians and Peyer’s and patients [04:48] And so making that process more efficient and accessible is really what innovation is about. [04:52] 11/10 stands for one plus one equals 10 [04:56] because we believe that collaboration makes things better and so that if you work together really there’s a there’s some synergies there and so it’s a play on those words. [05:04] What we do we are a strategy consulting firm. [05:07] And a health care innovation ecosystem. [05:10] We really bring together helped care life Science payer and digital health organizations. [05:15] to drive innovation product launches [05:18] partner activation and digital transformation [05:21] about 75% of our work is in life sciences serving commercial brand marketing market access. [05:29] And digital organizations Within life sciences so again very happy to be here talk about some of the things we’re working on. [05:35] And why combining? [05:37] strategy [05:38] and execution with clinical mind is really a one plus one equals 10 opportunity. [05:43] Absolutely, thank you for that. [05:44] perfect segway to the next question which is [05:47] Why did clinical mind decide to acquire? [05:49] 1110 or I should say one plus one equals to 10. [05:52] I like that. How does this enhance your capabilities and bridging strategy and execution and life sciences about Tom we stay with you on this one. [06:01] Sure it took us a while. [06:03] To get our third acquisition which was 11:10. [06:05] It’s been about two and a half years since we did acquire someone we’re very selective. [06:10] About who we want to bring on board and what skill sets we want to bring on board. [06:15] By doing this and adding the strategic consultant component to cm. [06:19] Or certainly going to be well positioned for Strategic and tactical execution related to their output. [06:25] And if you think about the synergy that this creates for our clients. [06:29] It’s really a no-brainer it ensures the rapid pull through and a consistent strategic Direction as you mentioned early on. [06:36] And no additional onboarding time and bringing on multiple out of that agencies and from a nuts and bolts if you think about it. [06:43] If they want to do multiple agencies to enact these strategy and the recommendations. [06:48] At the vet the agencies have to go to an MSA and sfw process on board. [06:53] Download the strategy and all that becomes unnecessary. [06:56] Using someone like us as an integrated provider. [07:00] So it’s saves time to use somebody like you as an integrated provider for a client that say. [07:05] wants to start off say with [07:07] basic creative services or market access and then they want to bring on. [07:12] the innovation Consulting instead of having [07:14] to reinvent the wheel [07:16] they they’re already within your organisation. They already have an MSA sign so just you know. [07:21] pick from the menu type of thing [07:23] Yeah, and think about how lean these companies are now with the layoffs. They’re running tight. [07:28] And so we really want to make life easy for our clients. That’s one of our major goals. [07:33] not only to [07:34] you know have execution electrons, but we want to make sure. [07:37] That we’re making their life better. [07:39] Yeah, sure. [07:40] so, let’s talk about some of the [07:42] Ways that you’re making their life better, you know innovation. [07:46] is kind of an overused term it can mean a lot of things I like James is definition of [07:51] helping to connect all those stakeholders you know using digital tools. [07:55] and not just [07:56] you know chasing shiny objects but using them for [07:59] a real value [08:01] and it’s a term that’s disgust frequently but [08:04] let’s discuss the How and how you both accomplish innovation. [08:07] 11:10 has a unique model to help life sciences. [08:10] companies formulated and test novel commercial strategies [08:14] and James aren’t you mentioned that you’re also an innovation ecosystem. [08:18] Talk about that a little bit more. [08:19] Yeah, so I mean look innovation is one of the most overused words in the industry, and I’m probably guilty of using it more than anyone in the industry, so I will take the [08:28] take the bait on that one but [08:29] I don’t have that much influence but maybe it is but listen. [08:33] The reason we think we’re unique and that we’re actually bringing executable value and Innovation is really. [08:38] Because of three things you know one is that we proactively built this collaborative innovation ecosystem. [08:44] Where we’re bringing together? [08:46] Helped care life sciences pay your digital health. [08:50] And Academic or non-profit organizations to provide expertise insights and support for projects. [08:57] So folks are really building. [08:59] new technologies or launching new products and therapeutics [09:03] with the end user [09:04] not just for the end user. [09:06] So that goes into understanding diagnosing behaviour. [09:09] understanding kol perspectives and scientific differences [09:13] understanding pay or perspectives and how to navigate market access and reimbursement so that ecosystem alone. [09:20] both proactively and during projects gives Foulkes the perspective [09:24] to really do their projects and bring their opportunities to market better. [09:28] second piece of that we built a [09:31] key opinion leader and health care practitioner [09:34] network [09:35] that we have about half a million key opinion leaders in this database. [09:40] So we are able to bring in. [09:42] therapeutic experts into projects [09:45] and have them work directly. [09:47] through the medical affairs and scientific [09:50] activation or scientific innovation all the way into commercial innovation [09:55] one of the synergies between this partnership is we have this kol network. [09:59] but clinical mind actually has [10:01] a key opinion leader algorithm to recruit the right key opinion leaders and they have a kol engagement database. [10:08] So that folks can compliantly and efficiently managed key opinion leaders so now. [10:13] This is accessible to all of our clients. [10:15] To manage and recruit kol to participate in projects. [10:19] And I think the Third part of our ecosystem. That is really a synergy and helps us breed innovation across life Science companies. [10:26] Is that we are bringing together? [10:28] a strategy consulting capability that works with the c-suite and the senior leadership of an organisation [10:34] with an agency [10:36] Who has tactical execution capabilities across? [10:40] marketing medical communication [10:42] training patient advocacy and tech enabled services [10:46] So not only are we coming up with big ideas and partnerships that conceptually can Accelerate the path to market and the adoption of a new therapeutic. [10:55] We’re actually. [10:56] putting those ideas into market and seeing [10:59] Diagnosis and metrics and time to adoption move rapidly so super excited about that ecosystem and really enthused to get this out to to more folks in the industry, so they can see the impact. [11:10] great [11:12] and Tom how does the clinical mind approach innovation? [11:16] And how does the addition of 11/10 kind of enhance that definition? [11:20] no innovation not only overused but [11:23] remarkably a polarizing word at this point. [11:26] I think most of all because it means a hundred different things to 100 different people on their willing to go to the mat and fight about it. [11:32] Even though it’s been co-opted by just about everybody. [11:35] All that said we know that it is critical for growth. [11:39] Even survival you might say in this day and age. [11:42] For us, it’s really easy. [11:44] We listen to our clients. [11:46] Identify their problems or needs and then develop a solution. [11:50] That sometimes contains something of service or product that is new or different. [11:54] Of course we do like to swing for the fences every now and then and have come up with some really impressive advancements some of the past. [12:02] And that’s why we have a lot of excitement around our acquisition of 1110. [12:06] We really want to be able to Funnel a lot of our clients a lot of our franchises. [12:11] into that ecosystem [12:14] and be able to realise. [12:16] a lot of the innovative success that they’ve had [12:19] Yeah, great. [12:20] And it really Nico system in the true sense of the word you know in terms of James said. [12:26] You know with a kol. [12:27] Database and hcp network kind of at your disposal they’re really adding a lot of expertise to the different engagements that you’re working on. [12:37] Let’s shift gears and talk a little bit more about AI and market access. [12:41] these are [12:42] again two- [12:43] big industry catalysts that we hear a lot about [12:46] where we’re joking offline, you know a lot of the conversations. We have it’s like you know it’s fun to kind of [12:51] count how many minutes it takes you know for the person to bring up AI and [12:55] it’s impact. [12:56] But even though a lot of people talk about it. It’s important to [12:59] discuss really, what are the real use cases for AI [13:02] Where does it make sense love to hear your gentleman? You’re kind of litmus test? [13:06] For where it makes sense you know market access is one area you know continues obviously to be a critical. [13:11] Aspect for our products long-term success. [13:14] So hoping we could talk about a few pragmatic examples. [13:17] Of how at new technologies making it difference in terms of AI the first of all how do you how do you differentiate? What’s real vs. What’s hype that can be confusing in of itself? [13:27] with AI [13:28] yeah [13:29] We have a we call it our demand driven innovation sprints and what we do is we go out in the industry and interview our kols and interview these executives and we put together these reports and we actually at the beginning of this year. [13:42] Did one on AI and certainly will make that available in some Channel coming out of this This podcast. [13:48] There’s a couple interesting stats in that so. [13:50] About this year there’s anticipated to be about 21 billion spent on AI and digital transformation. [13:57] but by 2029 they’re expecting about a hundred and 149 billion to be spent so that’s about a [14:03] 50% a little bit less than that kegger compounded annual growth rate on that. [14:08] But actually about 75% of those use cases, so three out of four. [14:14] Are expected to be administrative in nature? [14:17] so [14:18] just a key fact that it’s really improving a lot of the back office operations and Efficiency so think of [14:25] analysing research and different things [14:28] But when we actually interviewed executives in life sciences across the value chain. [14:33] about 40% expected [14:36] that drug Discovery and research and development is where these Gene AI algorithms we’re going to be relevant? [14:44] And only about 15% thought that. [14:47] These algorithms we’re going to be relevant in the back office and I share that to say. [14:51] There are big promises and artificial intelligence around. [14:55] Drug Discovery and molecule development and those are certainly interesting things to track. [15:00] But actually the pragmatic innovation in applications around artificial intelligence. [15:06] are going to be [15:07] back off this administrative and frankly enabling a lot of the services that we do today. [15:13] to do them better and so you know Tom alternative over you know I’m happy to dig into some of those use cases but [15:19] But we’re really excited about what AI brings as a tech enabled service to our services. [15:25] To help our partners. [15:27] Streamline some of those back office operations and administrative operations. [15:30] Thanks James I mean in our industry. [15:33] Especially a few months ago. It was really easy to panic. [15:36] when you saw this AI title wave [15:39] You know coming toward us. [15:40] No one wants to get left behind. There’s this C A vendors out there. [15:44] Many of them are just start-ups. [15:46] And they’re offering a ton of Solutions and again. I think Mark you are like how do you sit through all these? [15:53] So we just took a breath step back. [15:55] And approach here is pretty simple we listen to our clients and assess need. [16:00] We could develop the most whizz-bang AI enabled tool, but it isn’t useful to our client base. [16:06] And it’s a ways to time effort money. [16:08] So what we’ve done is with that in mind really taken a step-wise and strategic approach. [16:15] to our investment in AI tools platforms & Partners [16:19] and we’ve been really happy with the results so far. [16:22] most recently we’ve done a collaboration with a company called copient AI [16:27] to develop and Unscripted ai-driven role play simulation [16:31] we have several use cases for this but we recently highlighted it last week at the l10 conference. [16:37] for sales training purposes [16:39] so we’re very deliberate definitely not in a panic. We’re not going to be left out. [16:44] And what we select is going to be really relevant. [16:47] for a particular client base [16:49] I haven’t heard about it use for sales training that’s really interesting. [16:53] Um, it’s great. This is this is the first and we’re really excited about that. [16:58] So we can say this one is truly innovative. [17:01] Great and when you know James when you talk about you know 15% [17:05] according to your most recent assessment said [17:08] that these kind of algorithms would be relevant in the life sciences back office. [17:12] Is that include such marketing? [17:15] tasks as [17:16] getting control over the [17:19] the content life cycle those kind of things where would you consider that more in the marketing realm? [17:23] Yeah, I think it’s a little bit of both. I mean I’ll highlight some of the things we’re doing so I mentioned that we have this kol database and kol network that we recruit key opinion leaders from [17:34] with clinical mind we have built an AI algorithm or we can actually scan. [17:39] historical publications & speaking engagement [17:43] and use AI to figure out the right key opinion leaders for your project. [17:47] and so instead of [17:48] having to proactively scan all of the key opinion leaders and figure out who might be a right fit based on their publications and based on their backgrounds. [17:56] We use AI to automate that and connect the dots and it’s a very efficient process. [18:01] So that’s a very pragmatic way, because kol recruitment and and getting kols is very difficult and so that’s been a pragmatic way that we’ve been able to put some of that onto the field. [18:11] I think the example Tom highlighted around training. [18:14] I mean, this is not just a this is a sophisticated use case where you’re actually able to change the way your training your workforce. [18:23] and put in assumptions with the AI algorithm to interact with it so [18:27] So these are all pragmatic ways that have marginal improvements but over time. [18:31] They really do decrease. [18:33] The time to market in the cost to market of getting adoption of new therapeutics. [18:38] Alright, alright. [18:39] now [18:40] just touching on market access for a bit. [18:44] This is cited as a major issue. [18:45] And in your analysis James at 75% [18:49] of Farm execs or citing market access as a major issue, obviously it’s it’s part and parcel of. [18:55] market adoption of any new therapeutic [18:57] talk about how clinical mind and 1110 proposed to support market access strategy for their clients and I have a feeling that AI plays a role there as well. Yeah, I think it does I mean to be honest. I don’t know that it plays as significant as a role. [19:11] In the short term as it is it will in the future, but what we do with market access is we’re starting to see that the market access budgets are segmented where. [19:21] 40 to 50% to continue to be focused on National accounts [19:25] And payer and reimbursement strategy whereas another 40 50% is really focused on developing strategy. [19:32] for collaborations [19:34] so we’re seeing. [19:35] Direct to consumer models emerg we’re seeing partnerships with digital channels for alternative distribution strategies. [19:43] we’re seeing direct to consumer supply chain movement so [19:46] We’re seeing all sorts of creative strategies emerge out of market access that are getting changed getting percentage changes on a job adoption and assess and certainly a lot of this is driven by consumers pulling on. [19:59] The demand for glp ones but it’s permeating in other areas. [20:03] Where 11:10 in clinical mine are uniquely suited to? [20:06] Support is that we do already have. [20:09] this collaborative ecosystem [20:12] that includes [20:13] payers and national accounts and digital health companies [20:17] so we have been able to vary rapidly bring our market access clients. [20:22] into [20:23] pay your rooms where we can start to ideate on the future a prior authorisation innovation. [20:28] We’ve been able to take our clients into retail health organizations. [20:33] To think about creative ways to enhance diagnosis. [20:37] In remote areas and moving some of that into the retail health setting. [20:40] And we’ve been able to bring in digital health companies that connect these companies closer into the home. [20:46] And so that’s really where. [20:48] The ability to bring alternative approaches has been a value driver for our clients and we think that’s just going to continue. We think market access roles is not only going to be. [20:58] Getting on Formulary and ensuring that there’s relationships with National accounts. We think it’s also going to be connecting and channels to increase diagnosis and having a closer relationship. [21:10] To the home to the retail settings and to alternative settings. [21:13] Where life sciences companies build Direct relationships? [21:17] pretty how about we just kind of fast forward to final topic here in terms of [21:21] how clinical mind [21:23] as a PE back platform [21:26] that’s now been enhanced with the addition of Strategic Consulting is becoming more of an accessible. [21:31] Provider if you will. [21:33] for [21:34] small and mid-sized biotech companies [21:36] more of whom we see our taking their products to market themselves rather than [21:41] signing code promote agreements, but they’re typically marketing budgets are going to be smaller just [21:46] by the nature of their being smaller companies so I know you. [21:50] Technology being a big part of your offering. I’m sure that plays a big role in the kind of Solutions that you [21:55] propose you know for these kind of agile clients. [21:58] Tom you want to take us through how clinical mind uses technology to support. [22:02] the small in mid-sized biotech client [22:05] Sure, we have clients of all shapes and sizes including some of the big Pharma names. [22:10] But a majority of our med come work does tend to be with those small medium sized biotech companies. [22:15] Were able to really tailor the services and the technology that we offer. [22:20] to provide exactly what they need at the time and then we’re [22:24] quickly able to scale as the client grows [22:26] or as we you know move towards launch. [22:29] Indeed we’re working on about I think six launches right now. [22:32] And they’re all in this small to medium biotech space. [22:36] Tech has been really a part of CM since we opened our doors. It was a passion that Jeanne had and she was very insistent. [22:43] that [22:43] we have this on board and that we grow it as as we grew as a company. [22:48] our beef firm but into it completely they further invested to evolve our technology to the Next Generation [22:55] and basically what we have now is an integrated engagement platform. That’s fairly agnostic. [23:00] And has many use cases for hcps patients payers. [23:04] And you put that together with our DNA team. [23:07] And it really does elevate not only the technology but a lot of the services that we provide to our clients. [23:13] So bottom line, we’re flexible. We’re able to really mix and match our technology and our services to what the client needs at the moment. [23:21] And we don’t need you know six million dollars of a retainer fee. [23:25] to [23:26] Climb On Board we’re willing to engage with these clients for the long-term and be a true partner. [23:31] And then in terms of like you know helping them say. [23:33] Punch above their weight because a lot of these biotics are going to be reaching market. [23:37] And facing other larger players maybe being Challenger brands. [23:41] can you address that point a little bit too Tom [23:44] Sure, we thought that a lot it’s one of our favorite things to do in it all goes back to. [23:50] Messaging and market prep and I think that’s what these smaller companies are starting to learn right now. [23:56] What you used to see is that they would wait till close to the last moment to bring. [24:01] commercialization into the company [24:04] and they realised that that was not a winning strategy and they’re really bringing up. [24:09] the commercialization Aspect [24:11] quicker [24:11] and we’re able to engage. [24:13] With those individuals much sooner. [24:16] Create a unified messaging across all divisions across. You know affairs across commercial across Peyer’s [24:23] make sure everyone’s singing the same song. [24:25] And if you do that. [24:27] Again, we’re flexibly enough to have folks that can. [24:31] Bring these people together and to do this on a scale that is appropriate for a particular clients. [24:37] and we’ve seen a lot of success and [24:39] people marching in the same direction and having a successful launches [24:42] compared to what you know companies like this. We’re doing even just a few years ago. [24:46] right okay great [24:48] Any final thoughts gentlemen or upcoming initiatives? [24:51] Like that you like to share with our listeners and a time you said you’re working on like half. It doesn’t. [24:56] Product launches, but it sounds like you’re getting your name out there more and especially now in this new. [25:01] Iteration where you’re in enhanced James’s team? [25:04] What kind of initiatives do you have coming up in the next six months say? [25:08] I think you know like we mentioned up flying before we started the podcast we did acquire. [25:14] two weeks ago small [25:16] dare I say innovative agency called sensified. [25:19] small med come down in North Carolina [25:22] and what we want to do now really though is take a breath and work on truly integrating these two new acquisitions it or service Lines [25:30] So we can continue to do with a large networks don’t. [25:34] and I know everyone says [25:36] you know we integrate we provide seamless service. [25:39] But we really do. [25:40] That’s been our success our secret sauce. [25:43] We’ve been providing you know two or three service lines together. [25:48] On particular projects in the client does not know. [25:51] That it’s anything else other than their dedicated client team. [25:55] We want that to continue and you know where it’s 330 people. [25:59] And we’re still able to be as nimble and in transparent as you know we were when we were 20 or 25 folks. [26:06] So that’s our Focus really is making sure that we take these great acquisitions. [26:11] and [26:11] really bring them into the Fold and take advantage. [26:14] Of what we offer to each other? [26:16] yeah, yeah and Mark let me jump in on that a little bit more technical because I’ve had down or actually being on the other side of that to figure out how to plug and play into the [26:25] Clinical mind family which they truly do walk the walk we are all about integration and seamless service. [26:32] So there’s a few things we have going on is one. [26:34] Clinical mind had the foresight to really make a significant investment into building out these tech enabled services. [26:41] And so we are working really hard to figure out how to integrate these tech enabled services these. [26:47] AI algorithms these platforms these data analytic capabilities [26:52] into our ecosystem model [26:54] so that everyone that is a part of that ecosystem model. [26:58] Can access these? [26:59] For their projects for their product launches for everything else. They’re doing. [27:04] Second thing later in July we have all of the business units coming together. [27:09] To think about how their services work with one another. [27:13] With a real focus on how these can support strategic planning and brand planning for our customers. [27:19] So we are going to really enhance the way that we proactively think through strategic planning and brand planning. [27:26] And integrate all of our capabilities to be able to apply those and in the end of Q3 into Q4 is it goes into planning season? [27:33] And those are just a few things that are being put on the field and made accessible to our clients in the short term. [27:38] And there’s going to be many many more announcements to come as a as we look forward. [27:42] Excellent great I was going to actually ask you some excellent point you know. [27:46] As these commercialization platforms combined. [27:49] More and more offerings how they’re kind of making sure. [27:51] That one plus one equals three and they’re more than the sum of their parts but by definition. [27:56] You know by buying 11Ten and doing that integration work I see that you’re well on your way there. [28:01] So James and Tom thanks so much for articulating how the addition of 1110 enhances Clinical mind and ability to carry that execution through all these different industry catalysts. [28:12] As well as how leveraging innovation and tech enabled services like AI algorithms helps. You know you work with biotech or more big Pharma alike. [28:20] You don’t hesitate to contact them if you’re a brand or a business. [28:24] And you want to transform digital you or execute a product launch. [28:27] Tom and James pleasure to talk with you both thanks for having us it’s been great Tom Sproat chief strategy officer for ClinicalMind. [28:33] and James Lewis co-founder of 11Ten Consulting and now managing director of ClinicalMind [28:38] it was a great conversation come back for another one. [28:41] This has been Marc Iskowitz for the MM+M Podcast.