Omnichannel activation without omniburden

[00:01] Bringing that KOL messaging into your omnichannel journeys is really important. [00:08] To drive more behavior change and that’s something that we do a ton of video you know we believe in that in a significant way and I just want to be always weary when folks are saying hey, I’m experiment. I just added social into my mix but if you’re not. [00:19] Connecting how social works with endemic works with point of care. You’re really missing out that data that flows between them you know. [00:31] Hi, this is Marc Iskowitz, editor at large for MM+M and I’m excited to be a part of this sponsored podcast with relevant health. [00:37] omni channel activation without omni, Burden [00:39] I’m enjoying by my guests Clay Romweber chief revenue officer and Michael Cole chief business officer both at Relevate. They’ll explore solutions for practically implementing omni channel approaches into your go-to-market activation and you’ll hear successes in adopting omni channel strategies. You’ll learn actionable steps for incorporating on the channel into your 2024 activation plans and much much more. [01:03] Clan Michael how are you and welcome to the MM+M Podcast thanks Marc great to be here. Thank you for having us absolutely it’s a pleasure. [01:09] So we’re talking about strategies that marketers are using to realize their omnichannel goals. [01:14] We had a round table discussion about this last month. [01:18] But suffice it to say. [01:19] There was a McKenzie analysis not too long ago that demonstrated that organizations use omni-channel capabilities are relatively mature. [01:26] Have twice the revenue growth of peers. [01:28] With average skills so kind of underscores the importance of omni channel capabilities for Pharma and I know you have a lot of experience. [01:37] working with these clients, but they’re still as a fair amount of uncertainty amongst the industry and kind of [01:42] Getting started here. So how about we start off with the question for you clay first. You know just from day to day. [01:48] Hcp brand marketer perspective, what are some of the challenges that you see in making omni channel a practical components. [01:54] Of a brand go to market activation. [01:56] great question mark [01:58] we really tend to hear. [02:00] different things from a different profile of clients [02:04] really kind of two main themes. [02:06] for instance [02:08] those smaller pharmaceutical company might not have the infrastructure. [02:13] Built to execute good omni channel. [02:15] They might not have. [02:17] a first-party CRM platform fully built [02:20] and operationalise their data could be [02:24] pretty fragmented not really connected. [02:27] to their marketing efforts [02:29] or to their Salesforce platform in in most cases that being viva. [02:33] And they could have a limited. [02:35] Ability to deploy across variety of channels, they just haven’t. [02:39] Had the resources. [02:41] Or capability to kind of build that. [02:43] infrastructure so [02:45] that produces a pretty big gap. [02:48] In terms of what they have the ability to accomplish and what is commonly? [02:53] Accepted as a good omni channel approach. [02:56] Alright and the way we think about omni channel is. [02:59] You know data-driven customer-centric. [03:02] Kind of unified brand experience across channels. [03:06] and omni channel [03:08] itself is grounded in personalization and being able to [03:13] predict and execute the next best action at an individual hcp level so if you don’t have the [03:19] infrastructure to do that. That’s a pretty big challenge. [03:22] in and of itself, so that’s [03:25] normally what we see more so. [03:27] at a smaller company at large Pharma [03:31] it’s a different challenge. I think there tends to be. [03:34] Frustration from the brands on the level of what we call on the channel activation. [03:41] From the corporate omni channel ecosystem. [03:44] You know in those cases the infrastructure is built. [03:46] you know it’s [03:48] it might not be fully operational but [03:50] the idea the strategy is there the marketing automation is in place? [03:56] But the brands haven’t been receiving. [03:59] the value of that platform executing aligned to their [04:05] specific needs so they’re seeking better ways. [04:08] to really activate the brand message in a more strategic and timely manner so [04:13] That’s how we kind of focus. [04:15] In the support of those brands really kind of two ways with the bigger pharmaceutical companies. [04:20] Where we look to kind of receive triggers from them digest their data to activate on our end. [04:27] or [04:28] kind of [04:28] helping them operate in number of connected Solutions together. [04:32] With the big Pharma it’s really a little bit more around. [04:36] has this big ecosystem made it down to the Brand level to really be a [04:40] you know drive the right level of activation that you need to. [04:44] Change behaviour. [04:45] Write interesting distinction there, it’s also an interesting note of kind of where and how marketers want to spend their time. [04:51] Is one of the things I think we’re we’re kind of seeing a lot. We had an opportunity to review the mm and I’m serving I think. [04:56] There’s a clear Desire for innovation. [04:58] And for marketers to to trial into new channels or to lean into data at the same point that got. [05:05] Some of the age old pressures that they’re having hookah which is sort of. [05:08] Delivering on the basics right so even with budgets improving they’re still a kind of a general consistency about industry headwinds. [05:16] And some of the concerns. [05:18] And there’s certainly the consistent pressure in terms of the time. We know how quickly they can sort of move their product up the adoption scale. [05:24] So it actually creates a challenge where you got marketers that want to trial new things or lean into new ways of marketing. [05:30] But are still having trying to figure out. How they can kind of figure that in while they’re also sort of delivering on what kind of call their day job. They’re basics the block and tackle things that they know that they have to execute on. [05:41] alright, is it a lot too juggle their while they’re [05:44] facing as you say that pressure to deliver on the basics as well as a line with the Omni channel goals so [05:52] really interesting comments there on the challenges. [05:55] That you know the challenges with omni channel adoption. [05:58] As you both point out. It’s not necessarily from a lack of trying. [06:02] You know Farm has been investing in this area for years. [06:05] Where can you say that they’ve gotten it right and where do you see that there’s room for improvement? [06:10] Michael will stick with you on this one. [06:11] Well, I would say you’re spot on it’s not a lack of investment. It’s not a lack of organisational Focus [06:17] I think [06:18] you know the things I would say that Pharma typically has gotten alright. I think they’re [06:21] Getting that they have to solve this through sort of three levers. I got a people process and in technology however, so you’re seeing them invest in lots of training. [06:30] Bringing new Talent in I think they’re also sort of. [06:33] pushing out [06:34] PlayBooks and sort of go to go to market plans for folks to be able to adopt. [06:38] and there’s probably no shortage of [06:40] money that they’ve spent in terms of [06:42] bringing a new data data feeds data Lakes technology components, so there is that activity? [06:49] I would think probably if I sort of give you a two challenges that they probably. [06:52] Really need to kind of pivot differently on I’ll give you two of them one will be the long interest that will be the short answer. [06:58] The long is I probably would point my finger- at the structural challenges. [07:02] Pharmaceuticals already sort of the siloed world right everybody sort of divide themselves up by therapeutic class and they also then you know on top of that divided them up by okay. I focus on the hcp I focus on the pair I focus on the patient. [07:13] when you add on to that the idea of a center of excellence it often, It’s Like A Bridge Too Far [07:18] if there’s this great visionary Beacon of I’m going to introduce this new capability. [07:24] But it’s not accessible. [07:26] Often to many of a brand marketers the folks on the ground. [07:30] And that sort of disconnect. [07:32] Puts in sort of this component of I’ve already got a date job, but there’s somebody over there figuring this out. [07:37] Often the folks that are over there saying. Oh my god. We have all these new tools and techniques and and things that we’re trying to bring into the organization, but how do I get it? [07:45] Pushed into other folks budget and that disconnect that structural gap. [07:49] Again, that’s my long answer Mark but I think that’s the first one. [07:52] A figuring out, how do I embed that? [07:54] The second and I’ll do the shorter is to me. It’s a little bit in that incentives and I think we’ve got to make it. [07:59] easier and more acceptable [08:01] for these marketers to be able to fail with a certain portion of their budget. [08:05] when it’s [08:06] when I’m trying something new and I’m leaning into this data-driven world. [08:11] It doesn’t have as many historical. [08:14] Guarantees that I often have in my tried and tested techniques. [08:18] And it’s a little bit of a challenge so carving out a portion of it making it easier for folks to try new things those would be sort of where I see sort of some of the gaps right now. [08:27] Sure click, do you want to weigh in on that what you see? [08:31] in terms of what you were talking about the difference between small farm and large Pharma [08:35] And the challenges there and you want to kind of elaborate on on what they’re doing right and what they’re doing wrong. [08:40] Yeah, well, I think Michael will spot on alright. It seems like we [08:44] are trying to complicate the approached in many ways especially at the large companies Michael spoke of the [08:50] you know trying to get the brands aligned with the centres of excellence and it’s just a lot of moving parts right and [08:56] you have the infrastructure bill, but how do you really? [08:59] Take action and and at the end of the day the brand needs this engagement with their doctors. That’s what how many channels for right and [09:06] so [09:07] You need to be focused on deploying Tactics that will drive that engagement. That’s really what changes behaviour. [09:13] I think there’s some other things other ways to [09:16] think about on the channel too. I mean certainly the wrap. [09:20] Is at the center you know it’s an important channel the sales rep is too so. [09:25] You know trying to kind of try and calculate everything with a Rep has been. [09:29] Been a challenge but you know that obviously they’re trying to figure out because the pharmaceutical industry has been so repentant for so long. [09:37] right, so now they’re trying to figure out how to [09:40] have the reps they’ll be front and center in that process even though it’s a more digitally focused. [09:45] environment [09:47] surrounding and supporting omni channel [09:49] right and then you know. [09:51] You talk about you know the fact that the industry has been so. [09:53] Rep driven for so long yet. We see you know in the Healthcare marketers trend survey the data. [10:00] Suggests you know a movement toward. [10:03] Less rep dependant channels like we saw. [10:05] Video and non-linear increase last year and we saw audio streaming audio also increase. [10:12] And yet we saw a decrease. [10:14] in usage of some of the main stays like reps and [10:18] medical congresses as well as linear television so [10:22] it seems like the industry is at this moment where it is. [10:25] Keeping Up with the Increasingly digital media habits [10:29] of its customers [10:31] but is perhaps the [10:33] marketing budgets are are getting ahead of [10:37] the Industries ability to properly structure for that however you want to put it underscores the importance of [10:44] getting the organisational Focus right for omni channel. [10:47] And is it a top-down approach? Is it a bottom of approach? We know that like Michael you were saying that. [10:52] Center of excellence kind of is a bridge too far you know that. [10:55] Top-down approach, it’s going to be much more. [10:58] You know one at a time but it’s going to be slow. [11:00] where he’s a bottom up approach could be like every brand for themselves and can create too much chaos so [11:06] there’s a lot to to work out here, but I want to come back so I think the [11:09] that you’re you’re bringing up sort of the desire for expanded channels. I think that’s a very good thing. I think it’s great it shows that. [11:15] clearly whether it’s adopting to [11:17] customer ACP preference [11:19] or maybe some lessons learned from some experimental times and during the pandemic or [11:25] you know you know a little bit of a potential push on no see I just want to note to meet sometimes that expansion that’s going to push it potentially more into a multi-channel world right so more channels each channel doing its own tactic. Nothing wrong with that, but that’s your missing out that that connectivity in that coordination off channel. [11:42] And I just want to be always weary when folks are saying yeah, I’m experiment I just added social into my mix but if you’re not. [11:47] Connecting how social works with endemic works with point of care. You’re really missing out that data that flows between them. [11:54] That’s a little bit where we tend to talk to clients. [11:56] All for Channel expansion experimentation I think it’s great when marketers are. [12:00] Looking at new ways to align with customers. [12:03] To me, there’s that work of connecting from one to the next that I’ve really want to make sure stays top of mind because I think that truly is where they’re able to sort of both. [12:11] Accelerate the customer experience but also probably get the greatest return on the money that they’re spending sure if I could just add build on the kind of channel. [12:21] dialogue for a second [12:22] one of the opportunities that I think Pharma has is [12:26] right now most of the current omni channel. [12:30] environments really Focus exclusively on highly branded Communications [12:36] right putting the brand front and Center kind of traditional brand awareness messaging. [12:41] and as you mentioned Mark [12:43] you know more video more audio like those are channels that are highly oriented to. [12:50] kols and using kwls and thought leaders to bring messaging forward [12:56] and as we think about [12:58] you know the goal of omni channels especially with rep access down if the goal of omni channel is to. [13:04] kind of educate Physicians and bring them along the adoption Curve [13:09] a brand adoption Curve from awareness to consideration to trial and adoption [13:15] you know [13:16] obviously driving awareness is critical. [13:18] But perhaps even more important is really to move that hcp from a trial list to an adaptor is really a clinical voice. [13:27] From a trusted peer. [13:28] i.e. [13:31] Lead messaging [13:33] which you could be done in video it could be done in audio. [13:37] Because they want to understand how. [13:39] The well-respected opinion leaders are using this product and what patients right so. [13:44] Now bringing that kol messaging into your omni channel journeys is really important. [13:50] To drive more behaviour change and that’s something that we we do a ton of you know we believe in that. [13:56] In a significant way. [13:58] That’s a good build. I think we talked about earlier so the importance of [14:02] integrating the field force into your more digital oriented techniques integrating your medical content and that their relationship toward the kol and trusted third party sources into that. [14:13] Even if there are guardrails on terms of how that’s managed in terms of what is said and how we keep a level of objectivity. [14:20] Still understanding it’s the at the end of it. It’s the same customers the same hcp that is experiencing that full ecosystem and I think brands that are doing it right or thinking about all three of those Weber’s. [14:29] Sure, I like the channel discussion that was great. I mean it’s not necessarily. [14:33] a assumption that just because [14:36] We see high volume of channels on the rise. [14:39] That it strengthens the notion of omni channel being at the center of branch tragic could just be like you know a multi-channel. [14:46] So we have to again underscores the importance of the discussion we’re having. [14:50] Let’s switch gears here and talk about. [14:52] from the sort of problem discussion to [14:54] What marketers should be doing now to begin incorporating? [14:58] How many channel into this year’s activation plan? [15:00] Call what’s the gateway drug? What’s the absolute first thing they should do. [15:04] You know a Stihl from when I join you with the trend talk a couple weeks yesterday. Had a great one which I thought was really helpful and like oh, I don’t seen an articulated so we’ll the importance of just translating. [15:16] your brand objectives [15:18] which often are [15:20] Longer term and really thought out built on sort of qualitative data. [15:24] Into your engagement objectives which are faster hit easier to optimise typically based on your quantitative data. I’m like oh what an easy way of looking at it right so it’s [15:34] That you know once you’re pushing that level of effort and thinking about it you actually end up with a level of specificity. [15:42] I want to drive differentiation if I want to increase trial I get down. I have to get to the question which doctor. [15:47] Or which profile of doctors and what is the signal that’s going to tell me that they’re all that way. [15:52] And as soon as marketers start moving into that direction. [15:56] The comfort level with data driven the comfort level with how multiple channels can influence that same objective. [16:03] Immediately starts to rise and I think that’s the kind of a critical tipping point for me where it’s you, stop building out. [16:10] Tactics because they intuitively feel right and you start leaning in and spending more of your money in the sort of stacked or connected Solutions [16:18] that are sort of able to sort of ladder up to those macro engagement goals and I heard it. [16:22] And I was like oh wow that’s perfect because as soon as I start doing that. [16:26] What I want to accomplish as a brand immediately becomes it’s not a separate part. [16:31] Of my omni channel strategies and off to the side. [16:33] It it’s the it’s the latter. It’s that immediate drill down on how I’m going to be achieving my objectives and driving it through so to me that that sort of pivot. [16:42] in their planning process seems absolutely critical [16:44] so it’s taking the qualitative data. [16:46] Where would that data be coming from say you know like a brand.com where they collect information on a Q&A tons of quality of data and that’s going to be coming from their individual market research their positioning their competitive assessment voice of the customer voice of the [17:00] Voice of the rep as well and all of that is absolutely critical, it’s gonna. [17:04] stack up [17:05] and helps a marketer be a strategist. [17:08] That switch is when they’ve got to get more practical and say okay now. How am I going to be a tactician? And how am I going to help win in the market and that’s using that sort of quantitative engagement data. [17:16] Great great clay you agree. [17:19] shaking your head [17:20] want to make sure [17:21] I do totally yeah, I mean I think it’s a great great point by Michael no doubt. [17:28] You know is as I think about. [17:31] You know something they might be able to do a little different. I’ll go back to the channels again and in a different channel that we haven’t touched on that being. [17:40] Ehr at you know. [17:43] the point of care and and I think [17:46] I think the brands we work with could really elevate their. [17:50] Strategic use of vhr. [17:52] Right now most [17:55] ehr exposures really bought [17:57] kind of with a cost per impression mindset. [18:01] Like hey it’s great to be at the point of care. Where doctors are seeing patients. We just want to get. [18:06] Our brand message up in front of them. [18:08] And you know there’s not as much regard for. [18:11] Kind of the number of impressions you may be delivering. [18:15] To that individual physician. [18:17] Or where in the workflow? [18:20] You’re actually serving the message or or where you know? How are you trying to? [18:25] Serve messages aligned to like specific patient profiles. [18:29] So you know we would suggest or I would suggest you know that. [18:34] Brands have a little bit stronger approach to the ehr so they can really capture. [18:39] more insights from that ehr activity [18:43] and use some of that data exhaust to [18:45] you know inform their marketing efforts right to. [18:49] And and kind of be more precise everything’s about being more targeted. We should certainly do that in ehr where I want to serve an impression and a much more. [18:57] Qualified targeted way, so that would be one little. [19:02] Suggestion yeah ehr data that data signal that plays referencing is probably the best example of that quantitative engagement level data. [19:09] That tells you a lot more. It’s not just a great place to target it immediately sort of builds back up get chose about frequency it shows you about each CP behaviour. [19:17] Down a diagnostic code and a timestamp and your ability to sort of extrapolate information out of that not only is it get you exactly who you want it also helps you build better understanding of how doctors are navigating your category. [19:31] Without yourself or competitors and that’s a perfect example that quantitative data sort of moving back up. [19:36] And helping inform how a branch should be pivot and strategy. [19:39] Right great okay, well, I want to get to the case study. I know you have one to share. [19:44] Clay this is a case study above brand I believe. [19:48] that [19:50] Shows how you know brands can get started? [19:53] in omni channel plan [19:55] go ahead. [19:56] Yeah in this case we’re working with a launch brand where we’re pretty embedded as what I would call an omni as a omni channel activation partner. [20:07] And from that standpoint. [20:10] to truly [20:12] kind of work with them and at Omni channel way in supporting the whole brand we really needed to work with the individuals on the brand team. [20:21] right so individual stakeholders, I had specific roles and responsibilities and then [20:26] kind of ladder that up as a overall as a brand because that’s really what omni channel does too. [20:32] Alright, it’s bringing in. [20:33] The field responsibility it’s bringing in the non-personal responsibility it should bring in the peer to peer responsibility as well. [20:40] So certainly at the center of that. [20:42] you have [20:43] you know really key decisions. [20:46] makers being kind of that a non-personal and digital lead on the brand team [20:52] the Omni channel if there’s an omni channel center of excellence. [20:56] Who the representative is the supports the brand there? [20:59] They’re kind of [21:00] the the Anchors so to speak [21:03] around that strategy [21:05] But you also want to bring the brand team member who is responsible for the field force too and make sure. [21:11] You know that they’re you’re exploring ways to connect what they’re trying to accomplish with the reps. [21:16] You know back to the other Solutions you may be exploring with other stakeholders. [21:21] I was mentioning K well video. [21:23] Or okay, we’ll peer-to-peer program. I mean as well. So certainly you want to. [21:28] Talk to that decision maker whose might be more. [21:31] Used to kind of the medical message and driving that through. [21:35] You know speakers and dinner meetings and things of that nature but how can we leverage the output of that and some some custom messaging? [21:44] To add to the mix. [21:46] And you can even go so far as to bring the market access team involved too if a big part of a brand story. [21:52] Is around pulling through the recovery profile? [21:56] so you have a whole number of [21:59] stakeholders that you want to influence if you’re going to be a great omni channel. [22:03] Partner and that was our case so we ended up. [22:05] Having a lot of individual meetings. [22:07] And then also kind of running what I would call like a quarterly. [22:12] Business review meeting or workshop just to make sure everybody was really. [22:16] Really aligned and and through all of that was great partnership. [22:22] with their agency of record and their Media agency too right so [22:27] to do omni channel very well. [22:30] you know [22:31] you do have to mobilise it a lot of different stakeholders. [22:34] yeah, reminds me of the need for the multidisciplinary care team you know in the hospital right everybody’s kind of [22:40] Coming in after the patient. You know has has come in. [22:44] You have to involve everybody and it makes total sense because as you said clay earlier. [22:48] You know the way you define omni channel is personalised. [22:51] And synchronise I forgive the exact term we use but across. [22:55] You know the full spectrum. [22:56] of tactics [22:57] so and then the employing through as many stakeholders as you can. [23:01] To influence if you want to have a great on channel plan, it’s great. [23:04] So let’s switch gears and kind of start to bring this discussion to a conclusion. Let’s talk about the future. What do you see next on the horizon? [23:12] You know for marketers who have dipped their toe in the Omni channel cool. [23:16] How does it evolve from something interesting to something essential? [23:19] Michael you want to [23:20] tackle this shirt, so I’ll tell another. [23:22] client story [23:24] a little bit different take than Christ so quite as he was being humble at [23:27] What was on a blockbuster launch, so a little bit different skates? I’m going to tell you a client story about a rare disease client that was an in-line brain. [23:35] so immediately their budget is going to be a little more Slim [23:37] Because of the low- incidents. [23:39] They’re going to have a natural affinity for more target or data-driven programs. [23:44] And just the way you were describing some of the trends. This was a client that adopted. [23:48] innovation [23:49] so they but more in a multi-channel space, so they would kind of come to us and work to I have this specific challenge. [23:55] How what what’s the right channel? What’s the right innovative solution that works for how do I put that into feel so one year it might have been a [24:02] okay well program another year could be a key account management programme to help them sort of identify or [24:08] penetrate their their new see hcp’s. [24:10] Another year it could be like a video chat program, so the problem is everything was one off it was. [24:16] Individual it’s that perfect definition of multi-channel were their experiment and expanding channels, but not necessarily connecting or coordinating with them until this year where they bought into the idea of. [24:26] How do I sort of dive in and really sort of implement an omni channel? [24:30] Running for sort of different targeted data-driven solutions at the same time but also measuring and understanding the impact of that. [24:37] So we did as a in working with them. We ended up sort of coming out with tomorrow. I and what we found is that the [24:42] you know your control group to feel that only received one. [24:47] Targeted activation had about a four- to one Roi which is certainly certainly respectful certainly something you are enjoying. [24:53] you putting money in but what was more impressive is that leap that they saw for the folks that ended up being targeted across and those coordinated Solutions those folks had a 17 to 1 ROI [25:03] And so when you see that leap, it does two things first it sort of builds that confidence. [25:08] It’s that the those wins that allow folks to be able to share the success story work with their centres excellence kind of scaled out. [25:15] But what I think into the most important thing is getting Foulkes from trial to moving forwards that curiosity. [25:21] That innate interests instead of just being curious– of how can I try new innovative areas? It’s now. How do I get curious from a data Science standpoint? [25:28] What are the new tests I can put into place so they’re more multivariate. Can I try to test content cadence? [25:34] And we bring in historical preferences and scoring. [25:37] Um but when you get to that point where I’ve already bought into the idea of the coordinated now. [25:43] More of the innovation is going to happen really in the fine tuning and on the data side of the house and that’s really that that pivot to me with this client. They sort of move from that 101. [25:53] Entry level to our 201 and now they’re sort of advancing to that grad school. I’m curious to see how far we can push this data-driven component. [26:01] Alright, it’s gone from 101 to 2011 or multi-channel to omni channel one final question here one is talk about cultural challenges obviously in Pharma you can’t have a discussion like omni channel. [26:12] You know big industry catalysts without talking about some of the cultural challenges. [26:16] Both of you gentlemen mentioned you know the Silo of farmer earlier every everything’s organised into therapeutic. [26:22] Categories and then of course you’ve hcp vs. DTC vs. Market access and never the twin shall meet [26:28] but [26:29] as claimed mentioned these different units departments teams must interface by definition in order to make it omni channel plan happen. [26:38] How do we overcome this? You know? How do we make farmer marketers comfortable? [26:42] with [26:42] not only a data-driven precision process. [26:45] But one process that that brings together. [26:48] The field force with the brand team and so on and so forth. [26:51] If that if that’s to me I would say. [26:55] you know I think it’d be great for our marketers to really put [26:59] their plans through [27:01] a lens of are we truly being more innovative right every year you go through strategic planning and we need to drive innovation right, but are we really doing things in a [27:11] innovative way and sometimes that can be [27:14] scary and risky and [27:16] which a lot of people perhaps in this environment aren’t necessarily comfortable with but I think. [27:21] You know that’s where you need to go. I mean to be successful and really kind of drive change for your brand. [27:28] I would say along with that. [27:30] It depends I would say it depends on the client you know but at a small mid-size. [27:35] Client more the case study that Michael mentioned. [27:38] really was [27:40] is [27:41] you know [27:41] the having the confidence and trust in a partner [27:45] to consolidate a few Tactics together and really tests, how they work together. [27:52] In many cases decision makers like that okay. We’ll just buy this from this. [27:56] Partner this from that partner and it leads to a little bit more fragmentation. [28:01] but [28:01] in order to have some of that innovation or in order to test it out. [28:06] And and get the kind of proven success you might need to change the your kind of partner line up a little bit. [28:13] And really kind of rely on a partner that can accomplish a few objectives for you and see if we can connect that all together. [28:19] But that’s kind of a you have to have a confidence and trust in those partners to do that. [28:24] You know and then at the big Pharma it’s it’s hard to kind of move big Pharma it’s a big. [28:29] It’s a big. [28:30] Battleship so to speak you can’t turn on a dime. [28:33] what we’ve been trying to [28:36] Do with some of the brands is really to identify a specific challenge that a brand has? [28:43] and carve out kind of a [28:45] data-driven pilot [28:46] you know for us to really. [28:48] help prove [28:50] out a little bit of success, so it’s a little bit of the [28:53] prove it mentality but [28:55] Understanding kind of what? [28:57] Is acceptable or prohibited in their environment? I think that’s probably the one I would. [29:02] Watch in on most I think the biggest. [29:04] barriers this sort of perception of this huge, Burden [29:08] Now I’m going to have to integrate manage all these different Partners and these all these new systems that I don’t know how. [29:13] And trying to break through that. [29:15] At a macro is going to be really hard, but identifying a specific challenge. [29:19] And actually getting a use case. [29:22] into field and that success back to the brand managers [29:25] I think that is probably the most important thing is that that’s going to get you over that component you’re going to be much more confident and comfortable if you don’t. [29:34] You know dealt with the adage don’t like perfect be the Enemy of good. [29:37] So biting this you know rather than sort of. [29:41] Trying to make this the absolute perfect most idolised connected journey, but starting with a couple of smaller areas to identify and how they can work together. I think is sort of the best. [29:52] point of entry for that sort of cultural shift [29:55] okay great [29:56] well, thank you. Clay and Michael for that deeper look at going beyond omni Theory [30:00] to spark hcp activation [30:02] was great to get your take. [30:04] for more solutions for practically implementing Omi channel approaches into your [30:08] go to market activation. I’d suggest you contact them. [30:11] those who have any questions can email Clay and Michael [30:14] with their queries or contact them through mmm. [30:17] To that end, let’s have another conversation. You know as the industry. [30:21] Grass is further along the Omni channel maturity curves, yeah. [30:24] that’d be great check excellent okay that was clay ROM Webber and Michael Cole [30:29] Was a terrific conversation thanks for listening. [30:31] Come back soon for another one. This is Marcus squids for the M&M podcast take care everybody.