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[00:01]
Agency 100 Playbook Podcast making sure that

[00:05]
every piece of content messaging creative that we develop is designed in a way. That’s really going to grab attention knowing that that’s really in limited supply these days the blocks.

[00:16]
Mission has been for a long time.

[00:18]
It’d be great to do good and to do great creative work. You’ve got to do work that works.

[00:24]
It’s not about work. That’s creative for its own sake or that.

[00:28]
Just looks great. It’s about doing work. That’s really effective in the market because we’re talking about people’s health.

[00:36]
penalty results in the block first down

[00:41]
hello and welcome to the MM+M Podcast my name is Jack O’Brien I’m the digital editor at MM+M.

[00:47]
Pleased to be joined today by a couple of special guests for our Agency 100 Podcast. I’m Tara Rice. I’m the director of applied behavioral science at The Bloc and I’m Stephanie Berman global chief creative officer at The Bloc.

[00:58]
I’m so glad that you’re both here in person which is always such a special thing.

[01:02]
Obviously the black had a very eventful Year last year covering everything.

[01:06]
That went on was one of my great joys and reporting but today we’re really going to focus on the becomes.

[01:12]
Of it all and I’m really curious for those in our audience that may be unfamiliar.

[01:16]
What is bcalm so let’s just start there.

[01:19]
Well becomes stands for behaviorally enriched communications, so it’s the block supplied behavioral science offering.

[01:27]
It’s really at the heart of everything we do and it’s our way of bringing behavioral science.

[01:32]
Through our entire process from understanding our customers.

[01:36]
the factors that are impacting their decisions to help define strategies

[01:41]
that we can either you know address those barriers or

[01:44]
leverage those drivers

[01:46]
and then pulling it through to creative and my partner Stephanie here making sure that.

[01:51]
every piece of content messaging creative

[01:54]
that we develop is designed in a way. That’s really going to grab attention knowing that’s really in limited supply these days.

[02:01]
and designed in a way that you know we can make sure we’re

[02:04]
aiding retention and recall and ultimately impacting those customers decisions.

[02:09]
So that’s becomes.

[02:11]
From a creative perspective. We’ve kind of gotten the understanding of what is the base level but how do you take?

[02:16]
What Tara Rice talked about in terms of that behavioral science understanding and saying okay now we’ve put in to actual use creatively.

[02:23]
Yeah, I think it really.

[02:26]
starts with we we can talk about exactly how we do it but

[02:31]
I think the reason that we do it The Bloc.

[02:35]
Mission has been for a long time.

[02:37]
Be great to do good.

[02:39]
And to do great creative work. You’ve got to do work that works. It’s not about work. That’s creative for its own sake.

[02:46]
or that

[02:48]
just looks great. It’s about doing work. That’s really effective in the market because we’re talking about people’s health and so in our view.

[02:57]
to really deliver

[02:59]
great creative that allows you to do good in the world. You’ve got to fold in that becomes.

[03:04]
Peace to really inform the development of the work and then how it finds its tactical expression.

[03:12]
in an effective

[03:13]
way

[03:14]
so let’s certainly a b level with becomes.

[03:17]
How does it start if we’re trying to lay that out for the other agencies and maybe don’t do this sort of similar work? I have a different process. What does yours look like from the minute it starts to where ends up.

[03:26]
So becomes it’s really an end to end approach again. It’s you know starts with really understanding our customer all the way through to really.

[03:35]
being able to measure the impact of those efforts and seeing

[03:39]
Have we actually impacted that target behaviour that we set out to do?

[03:43]
So, I think that’s sort of a unique approach. You know if other agencies are using behavioral science.

[03:48]
I think what the block is doing.

[03:51]
Is unique in the sense that it’s not just incites or it’s not just you know we apply some behavioral science to messaging it’s really.

[04:00]
Start to finish.

[04:01]
every part of the project

[04:03]
and

[04:04]
it’s customisable in terms of wherever we are wherever we meet our client and where they are in their brand process.

[04:12]
We have something that we can offer.

[04:14]
And we can sort of scale up or scale down depending on the needs of that client and the customer.

[04:19]
And the other piece I think that is.

[04:21]
really interesting about becomes is

[04:24]
it’s not just me or the becomes team that’s

[04:27]
Sort of employed with offering these Solutions and being sort of the experts or you know the people at hold this knowledge.

[04:34]
We’re really taking the approach that.

[04:37]
every single person that touches our clients business

[04:41]
understands, how to use becomes tools and methods so

[04:44]
that’s the only way to really embed it throughout the process is having everybody be accountable and own becomes.

[04:51]
and I think that’s something that I’m really proud of and you know is really something a testament to the block that they’re doing something that’s

[04:57]
different

[04:58]
and I can’t imagine this the easiest thing too because I met it’s a lot of buy-in and training too like that has to then go to the culture. I imagine the agency of saying like we’re all going to buy into this.

[05:07]
yeah

[05:08]
I will give.

[05:09]
All credit to Tara here. I think that to your points you mentioned accountability and so it’s not.

[05:16]
All Antares shoulders to embed this in the culture and pull it through.

[05:21]
But the work that you and other members of the organisation of done.

[05:25]
In terms of developing really really robust training so that people have got more than just a surface level.

[05:33]
knowledge

[05:34]
It’s been really impressive in a very short space of time. I mean you can talk a little more fully about the kinds of things that we’re training on but you know we’re tailing it to different departments and so.

[05:47]
the way that a strategist engages with the behavioral science

[05:53]
Toolkit vs. A creative person, it’s going to be different and that training has been tailored to that the account folks need to know it all.

[06:02]
Yeah, yeah.

[06:04]
It’s been a real.

[06:07]
area of Focus and not

[06:09]
on insignificant undertaking and by the way this is not just in New York this is globally and so we were in Italy together recently launched in this and so you’re going global Tara.

[06:23]
well, thank you and

[06:25]
it’s really exciting because

[06:27]
you know really we started with looking at the theories the science and literature and started looked at what can we apply to the work that we do.

[06:35]
and then the next step was

[06:38]
how do we make that theory that science at literature? How do we make it accessible for everybody and sort of build?

[06:44]
proprietary tools that everyone can use

[06:47]
and so now we’re in the really fun part of working with.

[06:52]
You know the multidisciplinary teams.

[06:54]
On that training and that’s really where.

[06:57]
We get input so the creative team looks at sort of what we’ve built the tools. We’ve built and they will bring a different lens to it.

[07:06]
Same thing with the strategy team same thing with our engagement or Analytics teams like the everyone brings their own.

[07:12]
Unique skill set to what we’ve built.

[07:15]
And that’s how we keep moving forward and that’s really exciting to sort of see people making things their own.

[07:21]
Absolutely, I’m curious– too like because I want to get into you had mentioned earlier the measuring the impact of it because that’s obviously so key for marketers, but are there any examples you talk about being in Italy and being able to I know the block has gone.

[07:33]
Global in the past year or so and really a concerted Effort on the international stage are there any examples of becomes work that stick out to you where it’s like?

[07:40]
that’s one that we nailed it from inception to execution that’s

[07:44]
What it’s supposed to be about?

[07:46]
I don’t know if we can talk about.

[07:49]
Unfortunately, you have to kill you later okay.

[07:52]
I don’t want that to happen.

[07:54]
Not yet.

[07:55]
but

[07:57]
we’re really seeing.

[07:58]
Pieces of it, I don’t think we’ve seen.

[08:01]
Start to finish yet, but the pieces that we are implementing.

[08:04]
We’re getting a lot of really.

[08:06]
internal positive feedback

[08:08]
because it’s just as much selling it internally as it is selling into our clients at this stage.

[08:13]
So just you know internally our our team members seeing well.

[08:17]
I got different insights than I would have gotten otherwise or a while that’s really interesting.

[08:23]
The way you know this content was framed using.

[08:26]
this approach

[08:28]
So that’s been really valuable to see and then our clients.

[08:32]
Are really receptive as well and seeing the value and then once they sort of see a piece of it, then they’re like what else do you have in that toolkit that you can?

[08:39]
Offer to help make our work more effective.

[08:41]
That’s been cool.

[08:43]
Absolutely, is there anything that you want to add in there too in terms of how you’ve seen the response?

[08:47]
to becomes

[08:48]
yeah, but we’ve been using it in different ways creatively and so you know different responses to each we.

[08:56]
looked at our creative brief recently it was time for

[09:00]
a refresh

[09:02]
And a simplification.

[09:04]
But we’ve baked becomes into that and so not unexpectedly right you’re looking from in for an insight in a creative brief.

[09:13]
But the behaviour that we’re looking to shift and the specific triggers the behavioral levels that we’re looking to pull.

[09:21]
Our part of our creative briefing.

[09:24]
Process and so I think that what I’m seeing.

[09:28]
Is that that is helping us land the creative plain more efficiently it’s helping us land it.

[09:34]
Quicker it’s not just about speed though right, but it’s helping us land with.

[09:39]
quality

[09:40]
ideas and so I think you know from

[09:43]
a creative ideation

[09:45]
Point of view it’s certainly.

[09:48]
supportive

[09:49]
tactically to you know when we think about what’s the pull through of those.

[09:54]
platform ideas

[09:55]
Where using it?

[09:57]
as we think about

[09:59]
omni channel Tactics and so you look at a journey and so you’re going to think about certain things along that journey that are not new you know that’s what

[10:08]
Any agency? Would do who are you impacting where in the journey? Where are they at and you know? How do you?

[10:14]
Help guide them.

[10:15]
along that but to teach of those stages

[10:19]
we are using.

[10:21]
Again, you know the behavioural moment what is happening in that moment with that specific?

[10:26]
individual

[10:28]
and how can we

[10:30]
Impact whatever bias or blockage is in the way.

[10:35]
Of ultimately behavior changes all about behaviour change whether it’s a physician or a patient or a caregiver. How do we support them?

[10:43]
in moving them along

[10:45]
that

[10:46]
journey and so again. I think it’s leading to very kind of precise tactical.

[10:51]
Development which is interesting it’s a little less.

[10:55]
Spaghetti at the wall you you know creating things that really have.

[11:00]
Focus and purpose from

[11:02]
the

[11:03]
outset

[11:04]
with using it creatively to

[11:07]
In how we are assessing the work?

[11:11]
Along with the creative brief you know we’ve developed some guidance as to how to look for ideas and I think that they are.

[11:18]
things that

[11:20]
people with experience would be looking for any way, but it’s good to articulate them.

[11:25]
I think for the more junior members of our team but also you know when we think about our.

[11:30]
client

[11:31]
groups

[11:32]
some of them have more experienced with marketing and so can probably pretty into it of a look at an idea others are newer to the marketing function.

[11:40]
And so I think it’s helpful for them to have the articulation.

[11:43]
but again

[11:45]
the ability of a creative idea or a platform to impact behaviour change based on the behavioural insight is baked into that kind of assessment.

[11:56]
Criteria and so again. We’re not just looking for things that have impact and stand out value and you know creative wow.

[12:04]
We’re looking at them through the lens of.

[12:06]
Is this an idea?

[12:08]
That has got the potential to transform.

[12:11]
behaviour

[12:13]
because again back to you know the discussion at the beginning of this if we are not impacting behaviour.

[12:20]
And driving positive change towards better health than I don’t I don’t know what we’re doing exactly what what’s it all for if you’re not all about if you’re not going there at the end of that I know and it does kind of get back to the previous question about what results and outcomes look like and I’m curious– about how you measure that because that’s obviously so key from a marketing perspective. So you know when you’re evaluating becomes.

[12:41]
And it kind of gets to what you were talking about there like.

[12:44]
Yeah, what is the what is the gist? What are you looking for? We’ve built becomes again since it’s built into every phase of our process. We’ve built it into our measurement processes as well so

[12:54]
Ultimately you know we’re looking to measure the impact of that target behaviour now. Is it increase in scripts? Is it increase in screening rates? Is it you know patient visits what whatever that you know desired behaviour is?

[13:06]
That’s the ultimate goal but we’re also looking at.

[13:09]
What are some of those behavioral drivers that lead to that some of those leading indicators that we can measure?

[13:15]
You know if there’s behavioural drivers or barriers. Have we shifted?

[13:20]
Any of those you know that we’ve uncovered our key.

[13:23]
to that success

[13:24]
and then also

[13:25]
we have a suite of biometric sensor tools so.

[13:29]
that means that

[13:30]
anything that we’re going to put in front of our customers.

[13:34]
We can test before it goes into markets. So obviously this is done a lot in market research you get you know qualitative or quantitative feedback.

[13:42]
People tell you that when they like it or not.

[13:44]
That’s great very valuable.

[13:46]
But we can also not just get what people are telling us.

[13:51]
We can also get what their body is telling us so

[13:54]
You know what’s grabbing their attention.

[13:56]
What emotions are sitting beneath what they’re saying?

[14:00]
You know what’s their engagement all of those are.

[14:03]
objective measures that we can

[14:05]
Use to sort of take the guesswork out.

[14:08]
of

[14:09]
this is going to be.

[14:10]
effective and do what we want it to do when it’s shown to our customers so

[14:15]
that’s sort of

[14:17]
helpful in predicting whether we’re going to get to that target behavior

[14:20]
and as Stephanie saying it’s

[14:22]
Also, just it’s validation to take to our clients of.

[14:26]
you know not just I like it or Stephanie likes it or the client likes it it’s

[14:30]
No, this is what our customers.

[14:32]
Are feeling when they’re looking at it?

[14:34]
Yeah, that preference aspect. I think is very helpful to be able to remove that yeah, and you know I think that’s making for different kinds of conversations throughout the process and so at the outset to your point.

[14:46]
It’s not what I

[14:49]
believe based on my experience and what my opinion is I mean that’s still part of the conversation.

[14:55]
but

[14:56]
it allows you to have a more grounded.

[14:58]
conversation

[15:00]
One that perhaps has got more credence when.

[15:04]
along with that we are talking about we believe this is powerful because

[15:10]
this is the behavioral.

[15:12]
Issue at this point in the journey with this particular.

[15:17]
customer group

[15:19]
and this is the very particular behavioral leather that we are pulling on or it might be two or three.

[15:25]
In order to impact change their and so the creative work is really bringing to life.

[15:32]
the science of what we know works and so that’s a different kind of

[15:36]
conversation

[15:37]
That we haven’t been able to have before and then also I think it helps us.

[15:42]
Have a mantra protect the work protect the word protect the work and that’s not.

[15:48]
being precious creatively

[15:51]
maybe a tiny bit but it’s it’s not really about that. It’s it’s protect.

[15:57]
the power that people saw in it at the outset

[16:01]
and as we Shepherd works through the process for all good reasons.

[16:07]
things get

[16:09]
compromised some times they get watered down or they get over cluttered.

[16:15]
And what we’re able to do with some of these tools that Tara talked about throughout that process okay. Well, we need to say this or we believe we need to add this in.

[16:25]
Let’s see what that does to audience response.

[16:29]
And so very quickly without going through whole other round of market research. You can get a read on.

[16:35]
Okay well, we think we need to say this but we add this in.

[16:39]
Now attention is all over the map.

[16:42]
and people actually are not taking away the key message that we need them to their focused on X Y or Z

[16:49]
And so I again at different points throughout the process whether it’s about creative idea.

[16:55]
or whether it’s about the kind of nuts and bolts of Execution

[16:59]
it’s allowing us to have.

[17:01]
really grounded

[17:03]
conversations

[17:04]
absolutely no and that’s kind of the ultimate value that you’re going for at the end of the day is not something that’s just like oh it makes us feel good. It’s like no are we actually getting something out of this work going somewhere exactly exactly and so I think that can be.

[17:17]
Eye opening you know particularly that more tactical expression.

[17:22]
piece of it because there is that tendency of

[17:25]
going to say this and we’ve got to say that and we’ve got to show this.

[17:29]
If that is then getting in the way of you being able to engage a customer have them take?

[17:35]
A desired action then it needs to reconsideration you know.

[17:40]
absolutely

[17:41]
there’s been really great to get an understanding of what becomes is putting into application all the sort of stuff. Is there anything else as it relates to becomes that you think is important for our audience to understand with what the block is doing on this front or maybe even what you’re seeing as a

[17:55]
starts to permeate across the industry

[17:58]
I have been

[18:00]
Starting to really dive in and work with the tools and pull it through you know if I do a creative inspiration session which are doing on a monthly basis. I’m looking at the work.

[18:10]
We look at you know great work. That’s out in the world in health and beyond.

[18:14]
I’m not just giving a creative point of view on it.

[18:18]
I’m looking at it through the lens of why is it making me feel this way. Why do we think this is impactful and effective work?

[18:24]
And so demonstrating for people what the behavioral.

[18:28]
Trigger’s are that we’re pulling or leveraging Tara is my behind the scenes coach.

[18:34]
But it’s been good for me to kind of dive in and get my arms around you because at first blush.

[18:40]
There’s a lot.

[18:42]
You know this is a whole kind of body this area of science.

[18:48]
and so I think both in terms of

[18:52]
You know agency folks but also clients. Oh my goodness you know where do you start? How do you absorb it?

[18:59]
But what I realised in the tools that Tarrant team of developed.

[19:04]
It makes it super digestible.

[19:07]
and even I

[19:10]
Can go through them and figure out. Oh, I see what you know bias or

[19:17]
You know issue, is that play here and why this work is so effective and so I think.

[19:23]
We’re starting to work with it and look in it.

[19:26]
creative examples

[19:28]
through the lens of some of these tools has been really helpful for me to work with it but also for the I think the broader team.

[19:35]
To see it come to life and so those are conversations that we’re starting to have.

[19:39]
With clients because the science of it is cool and you know I think most people can very quickly see the potential of it.

[19:47]
but then you do have a moment of

[19:49]
Oh dear lord, that’s a lot and so I think you’ve done a good job of making it super digestible.

[19:56]
What’s Stephanie’s talking about is one of my favorite?

[19:59]
collaborations that we’ve had where you know she shares

[20:02]
great work

[20:04]
from her perspective creatively and so

[20:07]
it was really an organic. Yeah.

[20:09]
Partnership where I was showing some of our becomes tools and she saw the integration immediately. Oh, I can.

[20:15]
Use your tool to show why?

[20:18]
This is working behaviorally so it’s coming at it from both perspectives and showing our teams.

[20:24]
This is why it’s a great piece of creative.

[20:26]
And this is the behavioral strategy that informed it.

[20:30]
And so you can sort of see oh I get it now.

[20:34]
This is what we need to do in our work and here’s the tools that I have at my disposal to do that.

[20:38]
so

[20:39]
It’s just really gratifying when I see people that they get it and they’re they’re using becomes because I don’t really get it right I get it I get and sometimes. She gently calls corrects me what yes, it’s that but it might more fully be this.

[20:54]
yeah

[20:55]
It’s very then having it be let one where the other kind of it’s a little bit of art and science yeah.

[21:01]
yeah

[21:02]
true, yeah

[21:03]
The most effective approach in the experience, I’ve had with different marketing agencies, so it’s good to see that’s happening. There’s been a again a wonderful conversations there anything else that our audience seems to know where they can where can they learn more?

[21:14]
Yeah, so

[21:15]
that is more information on our website the blog.com.

[21:19]
But if anybody would like to talk about it, how.

[21:24]
It might be applicable to their business we would love.

[21:27]
to dive in

[21:29]
deeper and you know Tara can share I think more more specifics about the kinds of things that we can bring to bear and the person to reach out to would be j a pal.

[21:38]
just J

[21:40]
a p p e l at the Bloc

[21:43]
dot calm the loop

[21:45]
Awesome well, thank you again. It’s been a wonderful conversation. Thank you.