Trust and transformation: The new face of healthcare

[00:01] In this world the role of brand [00:06] in the equation has never been more important to our clients and the ones that are going to get it right are the brands that are investing in brand experiences at the center of their marketing mix building trust in the authentic way for them is about having strong principles about what matters most today if you want to build authentic relationships with your audiences. [00:26] You’ve got to do it by going to them you can’t just [00:29] take this static approaches that worked in the past. [00:39] Hello and welcome. I’m Marc Iskowitz the editor at large for MM+M. [00:42] And I’m pleased to be joined by two executives from IPG DXTRA Health. Jamey Hardesty who is SVP of scientific and health care strategy at Jack Health and Lynne Field who is head of strategy for FutureBrand North America [00:54] And they’re here to discuss trust and transformation the new face of health care. [01:05] Jamey and Lynn welcome to the mmm podcast thanks for having us mark. Yeah, thank you Marc [01:09] absolutely terrific to have you as well. [01:11] Just to kind of set things up here you know in the evolving world of Brand and brand experience. [01:16] Health care & Pharma companies are redefining their identities and strategies. [01:20] All as brand purpose and health and wellness trends continue to push the industry. [01:25] into new Territories [01:26] so we’re going to Delve into the transformation journey of corporate and consumer health care brands. [01:30] And it’s impact on their most important audiences. [01:33] So just to kind of take a step back here, you know Jamie and Lynn I know that. [01:37] IPG Dexter health is kind of debuting. [01:39] On the agency family tree and mmm and also Jack health. It’s the first year that you’re debuting in the agency 100. [01:47] So, let’s just kind of have you both tell. [01:49] Me about your agencies respectively your roles. [01:53] And what has you most excited and health care right now? [01:56] Sure, we’ll thank you Mark again for having us and we’re super excited to be here. [02:00] My name is Jamie Hardy my pronouns are he and him and I lead strategy for Jack health. We are extremely excited and very honoured. [02:10] To be making our debut this year on the agency 100. We were very fortunate last year to be. [02:15] Labeled is is one to watch and continue to have our growth and to be able to make that list this year and announced and share that with our team was was very very exciting but a little bit about us Jack health. We’re a global brand experience agency. Where purpose built to bring an experience first approach to health care marketing. [02:36] Clients tend to come to us for brand experiences. [02:39] That it may be more familiar to think of that is experiential marketing. [02:43] things like meetings events activation Congress trade shows brand launches [02:49] We’ve been around now for about three years. We launched in 2021. We’ve certainly been around as an agency much longer than that. [02:59] As part of Jack Morton but we sort of built a large enough book of business that sort of Led to us. [03:05] formalising [03:06] our health care work and so really the beauty of the model that we’ve built at Jack health. Is you know we’ve taken the 85 plus years of experiential marketing experience that Jack Morton is built on. [03:22] And combined that strategy and creative and production chops that we’re really proud of that we work with on brands like Google and tiktok meta. [03:32] And brought that in combination with that industry specific specialty. [03:38] Scientific and regulatory lens that we know brands need in the Healthcare space. [03:43] And really it’s allowed us to sort of focus on. [03:46] Um how we are able to transform how patients in hcp’s and employees are able to connect with brands so we’re working. [03:54] You know across all these different groups of stakeholders. [03:57] And I guess thinking through what I’m most excited about in Healthcare right now. I could I could probably list a laundry list here, but I’ll focus on one and that would probably be the way in which technology is changing the way that brands are acting and behaving today. We talk a lot about omni channel approaches. [04:15] digital Analytics advanced data Analytics AI [04:19] And all of these are. [04:20] A lot of fun, they’re really important. It’s hard work to do it. [04:23] But at the same time it’s enabled us to tailor and create these branded experiences. [04:30] That are able to meet people in these moments and in the right channels. [04:35] And because of that we’re we’re in. [04:37] A lot of ways and it’s a bit of the you know the end to the yang. [04:41] able to really become more human-centric and our Focus [04:45] as brands because we’re able to show up in the right places at the right time. [04:50] And that’s enabling these authentic relationships that are helping brands to build trust. [04:55] to build loyalty and change the way that engagement looks [05:00] And I think that’s really exciting for us as marketers, but especially for brands and and the audiences that we’re trying to reach. [05:07] You know like the way you put that Jamie you really changing the way engagement looks. [05:11] In this all important area of you know engaging with hcps and patients around. [05:17] their health care [05:18] Lynn how about you? You know tell me tell us about your agency your role, and what has you most excited in Healthcare right now? [05:25] so I Linfield head of strategy for future brand, North America [05:30] For those of you who don’t know future brand we are a brand-led business transformation company. [05:35] So our Focus is on helping businesses Grow by guiding them and balancing. [05:40] their brand purpose [05:42] And their everyday lived experience. [05:44] for the brand [05:45] we were founded about 25 years ago now. [05:48] We have about 20 offices around the world and what we do a lot of work in Healthcare [05:53] we work across a broad variety of sectors so from consumer and technology to financial services. [06:00] transportation sports and entertainment and and beyond so we really [06:05] find this experience looking at what matters to people across sectors can really help. [06:12] I said buys our Healthcare clients. [06:15] On how they can best position their brands for future growth? [06:19] So we are known for the future brand index. This is our annual study. We ranked the world’s 100 largest brands by market capitalisation as to find by PWC [06:30] on 18 dimensions of purpose and experience and this purpose and experience balance is concept is the cornerstone of our methodology. [06:40] So I’m excited to share that we just recently launched our inaugural consumer. [06:45] index [06:46] so our future band consumer. [06:48] in decks ranks 100 well established [06:52] us [06:53] consumer packaged good brands on those same- dimensions [06:57] so really together the two- reports. [07:00] Have very compelling. [07:01] Take aways for health care brands as their seeking to navigate. [07:06] This category that is being constantly disrupted. [07:10] And that really speaks to what most excites me about how health care right now and to it in addition to what Jamie talked about. [07:17] It’s that. [07:18] This category is undergoing such profound transformation. [07:22] The lines between health care consumer and technology are blurring. [07:26] So in this world the role of brand. [07:30] In the equation has never been– more important to our clients. [07:33] Awesome, so these future brand index. We certainly heard of that. [07:36] And now you’ve launched the future brand consumer index. [07:40] Which again as you said kind of takes that same? [07:43] framework of the intersection [07:45] of purpose and experience and which brands are doing it the best way. [07:50] really interesting okay- great so [07:52] thanks for giving us that background. [07:54] You know 9th will Downer who is the head of Jack health joined us on inside the locker room that the video series we did with everyone on the mmm. [08:02] Agency 100 and he talked a bit about the unhiding. [08:05] Of the corporate Brand and health and Pharma as one of the major shifts. [08:09] We’ve been seeing. [08:10] Jamie how are you seeing this tick shape? [08:13] Yeah, you know we love Nigel and certainly he’s on point when he brings this one up. It’s one we talked about a lot with clients. [08:21] and it’s one that clients are thinking a lot about and that’s because [08:25] you know when you think about the front door to [08:28] Pharma companies and health care brands this year brand purpose and mission are now hanging on it. It’s far more visible than it’s ever been. [08:36] It’s not that these stories weren’t there that these values the mission and in purpose internally haven’t been important within Healthcare brands. [08:46] But we’ve often had. [08:48] this gap between the way that we see our purpose within health care in the way that it’s perceived from the outside and [08:56] it’s really LED particularly in light of covid which I hate going back to it. [09:01] But I think covid really was this moment where we recognise that. [09:07] The role that the corporate brand was going to play because of the fact that. [09:11] You know we as people we as consumers. We’re suddenly taking a different lens and filter to the brands that we engage with in all areas of our life. [09:21] And certainly farm in Healthcare brands were no exception there. [09:25] And then as you consider. [09:27] As we’ve progressed forward from covid. [09:30] brands of really figured out how to pivot from those messages and narratives that led them through [09:35] and [09:37] as we progress out of [09:39] out of covid [09:40] it was it was really one of the first times in a long time that that trust was growing. [09:46] Across farm and health care and I feel bad often when we look at these. [09:51] Indexes and rankings because Pharma in particular tends to get hammered. [09:56] And I think that that’s really because of the gap between this purpose and perception of the work that internally we know is being done in the way that those stories are being told publicly and I think a big reason for that has been that brands often. [10:11] Are very good at internally communicating what it is. They do how they do it what their purpose is. [10:17] But aren’t always good at doing that at the corporate Brand level. [10:21] They’re better at it at the at the product level but in these brands of for very long time been very product-centric. [10:29] But we’ve seen this shift towards the corporate brand. [10:32] and the way in which people are showing up where they’re showing up and how they’re showing up and that’s critically important because [10:40] today if you want to build authentic relationships with your audience is [10:44] you’ve got to do it by going to them you can’t just [10:48] take this static approaches that that worked in the past where. [10:51] if we say the right things we’re going to be able to get the right engagement in the the right you know next best action from our audiences and [11:00] When you look across the Landscape there’s a lot of really. [11:03] Strong examples of brands that have already started doing this. I’m going to pick a couple that everybody are probably more aware of. [11:09] I think Pfizer has done a fantastic job of this. [11:12] We saw them suddenly sponsoring the Oscars and you’re like holy smokes you know like what what’s going on there. [11:19] We’ve been a bit use to seeing brands at the Super Bowl [11:22] but the way in which they’re using. [11:24] Those opportunities to be in front of people particularly in sport. [11:28] Has changed significantly they use that opportunity to pivot from? [11:32] Science will win. [11:34] Which was a very covid forward message to. [11:37] their let out do cancer campaign and [11:40] Celebrating the history so if you remember that commercial that was that was about a shift in the way that people saw their Brand and what they were going to be about now. [11:48] And then you saw them at South by southwest this year and they did a fantastic job their cmo Drew panioto. [11:57] Was sitting on stage alongside other brands and I thought that was so well done. [12:02] He was sitting with the cmo of Delta The cmo of EOS cosmetics. [12:08] as well as [12:09] sitting in some of the external event sessions that inactivation should happen. She Media lab puts on some really great events so [12:16] he was there talking about their women’s health work and [12:19] so [12:20] their brands are getting much more targeted and smart about the way that they get out in front of people and share those messages. [12:28] With their key audiences and then Moderna I think Moderna was another brand that did a great job. [12:33] Of that they’ve been at CES they’ve been at South by they were ahead of the curve there. [12:38] and then they showed up at the US Open [12:41] and that was that was such a unique. [12:43] presence to be sitting there as sort of a title sponsor alongside a Cadillac [12:49] and being able to sort of shift people from [12:53] were a covid vaccine company to where an mrna platform. [12:58] That is going to create all kinds of therapies that are going to better our lives moving forward and so they were able to get out in front of people and share their stories. They created a campaign called changemakers Billie Jean King was part of that campaign. [13:12] the famous tennis player [13:14] In really, just celebrating people celebrating people that made change and and they created a halo. [13:20] around their own brand without saying you know well, we’re Heroes but [13:24] you know they they created that Halo around them in associated themselves with. [13:28] who people’s Heroes were within that Sport [13:31] And really we know all brands want to win. [13:34] these moments that matter we talked about moments that matter a lot at Jack [13:38] and building authentic connections is something that just about every client asks us at like. How are we? How can we do this? How can we better engage with our key audiences? [13:47] Particularly our own people there’s more emphasis on internal work now employee engagement recruitment in this ever been. [13:56] but the brands that are actually doing this really well, and the ones that are going to get it right are the brands that are investing in brand experiences at the center of their marketing mix and [14:07] I think tums as a consumer brand is a really great example of that they were at the Super Bowl we probably all saw this commercial and didn’t think much of it. [14:16] they [14:16] collaborated with draft kings and draftkings is you know a gambling betting business and people make prop bets right. This is a fun thing people like to do in sport. [14:27] And so they they played on Prop bites and people eating snacks. That’s a big part of the DNA of the Super Bowl [14:35] and people were able to make bets on what their favorite snacks were. [14:39] To win 10,000 dollars they were able to order tums to be delivered to their door in real time. [14:46] And leading up to the Super Bowl in Vegas they thumbs and draftkings actually took over a casino and created a food casino. [14:54] And they really created these deep rich experiences and in that’s how you shift the way people think about what is Tom’s alright. Tums is just something you grabbed when you’ve got heartburn. [15:04] And helps to modernize the way people think. [15:07] About weight the way that brands can show up today and engage audiences. [15:12] Right kind of changing it from just kind of a brand you think about when you have heart yeah, too. [15:16] Something a lot more personal. [15:18] and you know [15:19] in step with the People’s interests [15:22] Really really fascinating thanks for taking us through. [15:25] Those examples of the unhiding of the corporate brand in health and farmer’s really interesting. [15:30] Lynn you have a take on that you want to share with us as well. [15:34] I do this. I love this idea of building authentic connections that Jamie talked about because when we step up that. [15:43] Getting that alright. [15:45] starts with an authentic brand platform [15:48] so [15:50] What we’re seeing is that activations like this that Jamie are talking about that just really brings so true for people this is part of a broader shift. We’re seeing. [15:58] a cross category brands are taking [16:01] a truly 360 degree view of how to build trust in and authentic way [16:07] from the Inside Out [16:09] so consider a brand like the video. [16:12] They are the most trusted Brand on our future brand index. [16:17] We see them outperforming the Healthcare sector in particular on this idea of attachment which is it’s a trusted brand. [16:24] As well as personality and authenticity. [16:27] And they’re doing it. [16:29] By exhibiting a very strong moral. [16:33] So in a category that creates a lot of error. [16:35] and anxiety there are [16:37] truly establishing and committing to ethical practices [16:41] around AI [16:43] the second thing we see them doing is giving AI innovation a human face to their very relatable. [16:50] CEO [16:51] so building trust in authentic way for them. [16:54] Is about having strong principles about what matters most? [16:57] To their audiences and then demonstrating. [17:00] How they live up to them in a ways that illustrate their humanity? [17:05] Then we could look at our consumer index. [17:08] To see who is connecting in an authentic trustworthy way there. [17:14] we see Gerber [17:16] the baby company at the top of our consumer index. [17:21] So they really are showing a high performer high performance on authenticity and trust. [17:27] through their [17:28] very simple-minded focused on anything for baby. [17:31] And the way they’re are authentically. [17:33] Living that as their purpose and pulling that through in the everyday lived experience. [17:38] interesting so Gerber sits the top [17:40] you’re consumer index or CPG brands given their authentic. [17:45] Approach and and NVIDIA is the one that sits the top of your future brand general index. [17:51] And as you said outperforming a lot of the health companies on there. [17:54] as well [17:56] in terms of their living their their authenticity and exhibiting a strong moral compass certainly they’re leading the way. [18:02] as a chipmaker which is incredibly important to the global economy now so [18:07] Let’s shift gears a second you know on the other end of the spectrum. We’re seeing a shift in mindset from Healthcare to health and wellness. [18:14] Jamie how are you seeing this impact the way brands behave? [18:18] Yeah, I think we’re seeing it in a lot of ways and I think it’s [18:22] about the way that [18:25] health and wellness is playing a role in people’s lives. [18:28] I had to go back to covid again, but I do think. [18:31] when you [18:32] think back to that time so much of what we were going through. [18:36] Was fear-based. [18:38] and [18:39] people were looking for a way to control. [18:42] things within their life control their health do [18:46] what they could to protect themselves and [18:50] I think health and wellness was an area. Where people could take ownership it felt like we [18:56] it was an attainable goal it was something that was uniquely yours and even the notion of [19:03] the word health care today [19:05] within some audiences particularly Jen pop that that’s a bit. [19:10] It can be a bit of a scary term. [19:12] There’s a lot to unpack in there. There’s complexity. There’s a lot of complexity associated with it and [19:19] when you really think about the brands that [19:23] are are challenging the status Quo in the brands that are bubbling up and really pushing on the innovation front. [19:31] The brands that are doing that are probably not the brands that you would expect to be doing that when you start to look around you can find some incredible examples of brands that. [19:42] have have really taken a lot of great notes and learning and Beats from [19:48] the way that consumer [19:50] facing brands consumer centric brands have [19:54] gone about really building and engaging audiences building their Brand and in looking to engage and and you can look at Brands like hymns and hers who took. [20:04] Particularly with men where the topics like. [20:08] hair loss [20:09] sexual health [20:11] and now weight loss where things that maybe people didn’t necessarily feel comfortable will talk to their doctor’s about. [20:19] But they had figured out. [20:20] We can we can package this up in a way that feels very safe very consumer friendly. It’s right within an app it like you don’t really have to talk to people other than to get a prescription. [20:32] And they’ve digitised. [20:34] Surveys and quizzes and they’ve done as much as they can to Almost remove. [20:38] the physician from the equation [20:40] to some degree which you know of course there’s [20:43] Plenty of healthy debate around that topic right now. [20:46] But they’ve they’ve pushed and in the innovation front. [20:50] on [20:51] how digital transformation and engagement can really change the way consumers think about how and what a health care brand is and then you’ve got other great examples like new. [21:01] Who have built this strong business on really behavioral health modification? [21:07] and now our starting to do things like working with businesses and now like many other companies like Weight Watchers [21:15] are in the weight loss business and all of these brands sort of started as something else. [21:22] And really got to deeply know their audience. [21:25] And listen and built the things that they needed to engage directly with the audience. They they disrupted and broke the model as it was. [21:34] and [21:36] you know I think that that’s so interesting and it’s profound because in some ways it it’s pushed Pharma [21:43] to have to to shift the way that they do things and in a way. [21:47] You know the Challenger brands are leading the way. [21:49] Where farmers having to do some catching up? [21:52] In the way that these consumer brands have have taught. [21:56] people [21:57] how health and wellness can be easier? [21:59] Right, yeah, they’re kind of lowering those. [22:02] Barriers to entry if you will kind of becoming more like we said in step. [22:06] with people’s lives rather than requiring people to upend their lives you know to kind of [22:12] take the product whatever it is analogue. You said Pharma sort of playing catch up. You know you’ve seen the launch by a couple of. [22:19] major farmers of Direct consumer platforms [22:22] to get a hold of their drugs which are very much in step with the way like the hymns and hers. [22:26] Of the world are doing it and now we watch as well, which bought direct to consumer platform Lynn love to get your take on how you’re seeing this shift in mindset. [22:36] From Healthcare to health and wellness in the brands that you have an eye on. [22:40] yeah, absolutely and it’s [22:42] the Pharma [22:43] brands are [22:45] playing catch up in the way you’re talking about we do have a watch out. [22:49] and that comes from the [22:52] consumer index data [22:54] that I’ve been [22:55] referencing [22:56] when it comes to [22:58] consumer brands in the US [23:00] We see a really interesting. [23:04] pattern [23:05] that [23:06] they are tending to [23:08] follow the same PlayBook [23:11] and [23:13] focus on [23:14] the same things which aren’t [23:16] Are according to Our Data the things that actually matter the most to people? [23:20] in driving brand performance [23:22] so consumer CPG brands [23:25] have a pretty strong performance on consistency. [23:29] Of our 18 purpose and experience dementions. [23:32] But consistency is not what drives consumer connection. [23:35] seamlessness [23:36] is what? [23:37] the primary driver is of consumer connection and that’s defined as [23:42] this brand understands me. [23:44] So that attribute is about being relevant. [23:48] And we are seeing across the board a very big gap. [23:51] in consumer relative relevance [23:54] so [23:55] we are advising. [23:57] brands [23:58] to keep three things in mind as areas of opportunity for closing this relevance gap. [24:04] That we’re seeing. [24:06] the first is [24:07] creating meaningful experiences beyond the product exactly the kind of thing [24:11] Jamie has been talking about. [24:13] relating to people in their lives where they are showing the [24:17] We’re all at the brand. [24:19] For them beyond the product itself. [24:21] We’re also seeing brands do well that are. [24:25] solving tangible [24:26] problems for people [24:28] and [24:29] by helping them feel part of something better part of a community. [24:33] Connecting them to community. [24:35] So for example an out of category, Brandon or index, it is is an absolute. [24:41] strong performer [24:42] on these areas is Gatorade [24:45] so consider [24:46] this is a brand. [24:47] Always evolving to stay relevant. It is a brand that makes people feel seen. [24:53] So, I don’t know if you’ve seen that they just launched their it hasn’t changed campaign. [24:58] Which is sort of a reprise of the is it in you. [25:01] Campaign everything about the game has changed. [25:05] So the most important. [25:09] to have inside [25:10] the premises [25:12] in this world everything about the game is changed. [25:15] but [25:15] the it [25:16] the inner drive [25:18] for greatness that you have inside has not [25:20] So, it’s a beautiful way to take a legacy heritage brand. [25:25] reframing in a way that still feels relevant [25:27] modern [25:28] and authentic to who they are today. [25:31] And in terms of solving tangible problems through their innovation get right water. [25:36] Just launched it has electrolytes. [25:38] and alkaline [25:40] so it really is helping people support hydration is a wellness habit. [25:47] A very meaningful role. [25:48] in their lives [25:50] we could also look at Brands like tonal and Fitbit in the fitness space. [25:56] So tonal does an beautiful job. [25:58] Of sharing stories driving a highly engaged community these are transformation stories. It’s not just about a before and after picture. [26:08] It’s really diving into the personal and mental. [26:11] science [26:12] of what it takes to get in state said [26:15] Fitbit [26:16] all about behaviour change creating social challenges competitions with friends making fitness. [26:22] on motivating providing rewards [26:24] So really helping you motivate stay motivated. [26:28] to keep healthy [26:29] so these I think are. [26:31] the [26:32] examples to pay attention to [26:34] of how to create authentic [26:36] connections [26:37] During through from the purpose through the lived experience. [26:41] Great yeah and again examples of brands that may have started off. [26:44] Perhaps is one thing and then through getting to know their audience and with the audience wanted. [26:49] You know kind of pivoted to stay authentic with them. [26:52] and [26:53] you know Gatorade is an interesting example. I don’t know if people think of it really as a [26:57] health and wellness [26:59] brand is more as much of a Sports Fitness drink, but that sort of. [27:04] All the time hydration you know they’re really kind of moving into that you know health and well in this area. [27:09] and I know you know personally it definitely supports my [27:12] overall health so certainly on these hot days like we’re having you know to stay hydrated okay, so want to finish up here with one last question kind of getting back to the IPG Dexter health. [27:22] You know collection of specialty agencies and you know Talking a little bit more about that and how you’re becoming more visible. [27:29] You’re a group of pr. And specialty agencies within IPG [27:33] and just wondering how has that influenced your daily work. [27:36] And the ways you work with clients. [27:38] it’s [27:39] really a response to the way we’ve seen. [27:43] branding as a discipline evolve [27:45] so today we are seeing the strongest brands in the world operating more like dynamic ecosystems. [27:52] That are adapting in real time. [27:55] They need to address stakeholder needs in any given moment and a micro level and in a micro level. [28:00] brand leaders [28:02] really need partners Who [28:03] bring them a whole list of perspective that really are. [28:06] In there with them flexing. [28:08] to meet these audience needs every step of the way so [28:11] That’s the premise behind the driver. [28:14] Behind coming together. [28:16] As IPG Dexter health, it’s really helped us meet this moment. [28:20] for our clients [28:22] it’s about having the right side of offerings at the right time. [28:25] bringing [28:26] write diverse Minds in branding the communication together to tackle these very big picture high stakes. [28:32] challenges [28:34] so [28:35] for those who aren’t familiar. [28:37] We are the largest and most diverse. [28:39] health communications network [28:41] in the world we have 22 marketing and branding agencies really all about comprehensive. [28:47] Healthcare marketing Solutions and it seamless [28:49] integrated experience [28:51] As you mentioned, it’s a whole range of offerings from the foundational branding. [28:56] full service Communications [28:58] very enchile. [28:59] We have sports talents influencer. [29:02] agencies [29:03] digital innovation [29:05] Certainly social content all the foundational research. [29:09] Carried through public affairs Media workforce transformation experience design do I leave anything out Jamie no? I think you got them all excellent. [29:18] So we really see where. [29:20] we can [29:21] come together really help. [29:22] Businesses transformed a couple of examples we work together recently on sanofi. [29:30] And there we ran they came to us three years ago. [29:33] With a fragmented brand that was really holding the back from achieving their business goals. [29:39] So we help them create a new more authentic corporate brand. [29:44] that really better reflected who they were shifting them from a traditional big Pharma [29:50] company to a modern health care company who is science and Innovation at it’s very poor. [29:56] so the whole [29:57] concept of the brand [29:59] Is rooted in the new purpose? [30:01] That We Created we chased the miracle of science to improve people’s lives. [30:06] So all about just the passion. [30:10] For the emotional impact. [30:13] and outcome [30:14] That a transformational medicine or vaccine can have for people really found that to be a unifying force. [30:20] within the company [30:21] and when you can unlock that DNA that really is the motivating cause or purpose for why employees get up in the morning. [30:30] And come to do what they do it really just ignites the brand to. [30:35] Come alive in the world. [30:36] In authentic way, that is unstoppable. [30:40] so we created a new brand idea to reflect this purpose, what if [30:44] and it was carried through. [30:46] So the new visual identity this what if idea you can see it come to life it’s a lens for decision-making. [30:53] in everything [30:55] that nobody does [30:57] they [30:57] deeply invested in storytelling around their people they have the new recruitment site pursue progress discover extraordinary, how encourage you to look at that if you haven’t it’s a really. [31:09] inspiring [31:10] video there [31:11] and and program [31:13] what I love is they? [31:15] really [31:16] embed the voice and perspective of the employees in their work. They did at recently we helped them with an employee photo contest. [31:25] It was about through your eyes. [31:26] and we [31:27] define six purpose oriented categories and we asked employees. [31:32] To submit photos both to encourage engagement and help make sure make sure. [31:37] That we were expressing the brand authentically but to build a more authentic photo library. We’ll check out those. [31:43] iterations the what if and how that plays through to the corporate side and that’s really an interesting example and [31:51] those were really great examples all throughout. [31:54] so we were joined by two agencies from IPG Dexter health Jack health and future brand North America [31:59] you know as Lynn said you’re kind of really helping brands meet this moment. [32:03] At a time when they’re trying to tackle big high Stakes challenges. [32:07] So thanks so much for articulating so well that shift from the product to a corporate top-down approach. [32:12] And you know it sounds like you’re many network there is becoming more visible. [32:17] To our audience at a perfect time so anybody out there. You know don’t hesitate to contact Leonard Jamie [32:23] if you’re a brand or business that wants to transform. [32:26] Okay, it was a pleasure to speak with you both. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having us Marc thank you absolutely that was Jamey Hardest svp scientific and healthcare strategy at Jack health. [32:36] and Lynn Field head of strategy for FutureBrand, North America [32:40] It was a terrific conversation come back for another one. [32:42] This has been Marc Iskowitz for the MM+M Podcast we’ll see you next time.