The Healthcare Marketers Trend Survey shows that, as far as channel usage goes, more growth occurred in newer tactics like non-linear video and streaming audio than in some of the more traditional ones. Last year video and non-linear TV usage reached 53.4% versus 36.3% the year prior. And streaming audio wasn’t quite that high but still showed a nice gain in usage, to 37.6%, compared to 27.4% in 2022. These targeted channels allow marketers to reach patients and physicians at critical junctures in the diagnosis and treatment journey.

Note: The MM+M Podcast uses speech-recognition software to generate transcripts, which may contain errors. Please use the transcript as a tool but check the corresponding audio before quoting the podcast.

Hi, this is Marc Iskowitz editor at large for MM+M and I’m excited to be part of the sponsored podcast with Swoop and titled Shifting market trends are transforming how pharma marketers find, target and engage with patients and providers

this is also a marketing spend outlook for 2024 podcast so along with elucidating these shifting marketing trends my co-host Peter Kane

vice president of marketing at Swoop and I are going to also break down the findings.

From the MM+M 2024 Healthcare marketers trend survey, we’ll share essential facts and put the numbers in perspective for the emphasis on omni channel which is become how a lot of DTC and professional marketers are thinking these days.

Peter how are you and welcome back to the amendment and podcast?

thanks Mark it’s great to be here again and

you know as always we’re super excited to partner with you on not just This podcast but also the annual Healthcare marketers survey. Thank you. Yes and what a great partnership. That’s been and

That feature thank you for mentioning it will be.

Reaching your inboxes the first week of April so as we tape this with during the last week of March and we got one week for that to debut.

And the print issue will be hitting your office mail Room shortly as well.

So a very exciting let’s just jump right into it here the Healthcare marketers trend survey.

Shows that as far as channel usage goes more growth occurred in the newer Tactics like non-linear video and streaming audio.

Then in some of the more traditional ones.

you know last year video and nonlinear TV

usage reached 53.4% vs. 36.3% a year Prior

and streaming audio wasn’t quite that high but still showed a nice gain of usage to 37.6%

compared to 27.4% in 2022.

This is on the consumer side.

We saw a similar a symmetry on the on the hdpe side as well.

But these targeted channels of course allow marketers to reach patients and Physicians at critical junctures.

In the diagnosis and treatment journey.

We also segment the data in terms of Farm over vs. Biotech or some med device.

And interestingly we saw that those spikes were most pronounced among the Pharma based respondents with with both metrics basically doubling.

unless so among the biotech and medtech marketers so

You know take that as you will but I wanted to ask you Peter how can marketers take advantage of these shifting trends in terms of channel usage.

And how can they differentiate or reach the right audiences in the right moment?


this makes sense in terms of where shifts occur right as consumer behaviour changes

so to or the Tactics and the channels that marketers are going to use.

And it also lines up what we are seeing at swoop.

The you know the scaling inside of CTV addressable TV online video and audio.

Is absolutely something that is consistent across across the market and not overly surprising that Pharma was kind of out front in this. They typically have been in the past. Is you know as you look at Pharma compared to

you know biotechs which you know are often smaller.

A different stages of their product life cycle and also med tech which typically is a little bit of a laggard to to a farmer does.


you know

I think this is more of a reflection on.

on two things one is

modern Tactics allow you to be much more strategic and who you’re reaching.

Alright if you look at the Legacy usage of demographic data.

To target in let’s say linear video or linear TV I mean.

It’s a very broad swath of a population and you really kind of looking at it as an indicator rather than as.

You know as dialled in Target with addressable TV with CTV you can get down to that device level.

And even with audio particularly talk about streaming audio. You can do the same although we’re also seeing some growth and broadcasts.

I think that comes to the second point these channels allow marketers the ability to use longer commercial spots right which is important for Pharma and so you’re able to actually get that full message that you need to get in front of the audience.

To the audience in these more newly adopted channels.

so you have kind of two things going on here right Focus

as well as the ideal message.

And then when you tie the you know you tie in that Ideal target.

Leveraging you know you know we look at as a custom audience built specifically for the campaign specifically for the channel.

You end up with a really?

optimised marketing spend

which is ultimately what we’re trying to do right. We want to make our dollars work as hard as possible for us in order to get the right message to that right audience.

In their preferred channel where they’re most likely to be paying attention.

And you know those mediums obviously also have shifted right.

we know that video is

Highly highly engaged with we know audio you typically have a very captured audience.

You know so these are these are clearly the trends that that we’re seeing a swoop.

The market’s adopting in my expectation here is that we continue to see them in the coming years as well.

yes, very well said video is

highly engaged with and you say these these mediums are shifting demographics.

You know you have these spend trans kind of overlaid over.

the larger trends of

the physician audience

shifting from the more traditional

say older older clinicians to ones who grew up you know in the social media and digitally age you know so they’re more likely to use.

Some of these newly adopted channels.

And obviously we have you know Google and now chat GPT at doctor’s fingertips, so a lot of the things that you used to be accomplished with reps. You know are now.

easily accomplished on the fly by doctors

So, let’s you know build on on that.

You know speaking of targeting.

expects action engines

which we know you know beam ai-powered suggestions to sales or service staff and real time.

To drive upcoming customer touch points or getting a serious look.

From Pharma we know the last you know several months or even years we’ve seen companies either buy or build.

These tools which tend to focus on Physicians who not only have a higher patient flow.

But whose patients are by and large diagnosed and ready to be treated.

Because it’s these clinicians whom companies view as needing.

That extra education and or a Reason to Believe in their product.

So with npp and predictive AI becoming a critical point.

in the Omni channel ecosystem for a professional marketing campaign

What are some examples of how it fits into a broader campaign?

So of course, so let’s take a step back and talk.

Audiences in general right, so you know what we do with our clients is.

build audiences to their specific


for that campaign right

So whether you know historically you’re targeting.

newly diagnosed patients

Physicians who may have written a specific prescription

Right, we’re going to build those audiences to that.

exact definition

leveraging that real-world health data

To get to that segments.

Making sure that it’s you know as high quality as possible while remaining privacy safe.

So that’s kind of the you know for us. That’s where we start.


taking that step further we’re also now leveraging the AI to kind of predict out. What might happen right.

Historically the segments are based on.

On what has happened?

But we now want to augment that with what might happen or likely will happen, so I’ll give you.

a couple of examples here


is undiagnosed Patience


there is an entire market at the top of the funnel.

of patients who likely have a condition but just haven’t been diagnosed yet right and they’re associated Physicians

So what we’re able to do is with high?

High degree of specificity is be able to target those patients.

And allow marketers basically open access essentially to them in the marketplace.

right, if you’re targeting undiagnosed patients, let’s say with

you know with a condition specific message.

You know your competitors probably aren’t which means that.

You have kind of that.


lead time

before that diagnosis

To educate them on the condition to potentially educate them on your treatment so that when they go and they have the conversation with their physician.

They are diagnosed.

There’s that background of knowledge that they can bring to that conversation.

and so this is where it gets really interesting because

not only now. Are you waiting for that diagnosis? You don’t have to wait for that diagnosis anymore.

Now you can kind of drive that diagnosis reduce time to it.

And you know accelerate.

The amount of time it takes for folks to start on treatment.

At the other end of that spectrum you have.

stuff like

adherence challenges

Or maybe the need to progress to a new line of therapy with this technology. You’re really able to look at.

The audience that’s on your treatment and say who’s really likely to become non adherent in the next 30 days.

let’s target them with

with messaging let’s target their Physicians with messaging.

To you know encourage adherence.

Or let’s look at our competitors.

And look at which patients.

On a competitive drug or likely to become non adherent in the next 30 days.

And let’s target them because it’s maybe easier to take ours because it’s a ones a week instead of a daily.

and let’s also target their Physicians

so now what you what we’re looking at is through this real world data targeting.

You’re able to still target probably the majority of your program on.

On diagnosis on prescription on lab right, but you’re also able to fill in those gaps to accelerate time.

That someone starts in your treatment.

To ensure that they stay on your treatment to capture new market share.

And ultimately is we talked about kind of earlier. It’s like how do you make your marketing dollars work as hard as possible for you.

Well, this is how.


you know we’re really excited about where the future is heading in terms of the in terms of the ability to target both patients and Physicians at these critical moments.

in their diagnosis and treatment journey

And you know what it ultimately leads to is.

better patient outcomes

happier Physicians because they’re getting the message that they actually want.

And then you know better commercial outcomes which is kind of the trifecta here for what we Are What we’re trying to do as marketers.

Yeah, that’s great and you know the predictive AI works both on the Professional

with the next best action engine side as well as on the DTC side with.

The predictive of who’s going to be not inherent in the next 30 days right.

Yes, so you know kind of

building on that a little bit if we look at the physician side.

We’re also able to look at.

past behaviour in terms of new

new treatment adoption

so for example if I have a new market drug.

Yes, I have my hcp lists, but how am I prioritizing those hcps?

Well early on in launched. I should probably be putting more money towards the Physicians that are more likely to adopt a new treatment.

based on historical behaviour and then over time as we move you know move down the

down the life cycle of the drug

I start shifting that budget right so now I’m not just targeting every physician equally.

I’m targeting the right Physicians at the right moment and that in that life cycle so I I shift my budget maybe.

you know

a year later to kind of somewhat of the

You know secondary adopters now. They’ve seen the drug and market other Physicians have been prescribing it.

Maybe they’re going to start you know based on past behavior they’re going to start adopting it as well.

And then you get to the lager, that’s down.


down the road so again going back to how do you make the dollars work as hard as possible?

You’d be really strategic and who you’re reaching and when you’re reaching them and we can do that now with this predictive AI tie in that next best action process and you really do have a

You know you’re moving towards a real omni channel type of Engagement with the physician.

Nice nice okay.

sort of

backing out for a second you know taking more of a 20000 foot look.

At the results of the Healthcare marketers trend survey.

Mmm. Did see a big swing in overall marketing budgets from an 8% decrease.

in farmers overall promotional outlays

to a nearly 20% increase across the board this year so

You know a lot of different channels were up.

we did see the symmetry you know kind of

between the newly adopted channels like non-linear.

TV and an audio and video being up and some of the non- and some of the more traditional things being down.

But a lot a lot was up.

And those those results strengthened in the notion of omni channel.

being kind of at the center of things

so you know now you’re reaching patients where they are in the journey.

As well as where they are.

In their consumption patterns, can you kind of elaborate on that?

sure so

You know we love seeing budgets up everybody in this industry does right. You know marketers love having more money to play with butt.

to really

It’s a butcher.

A famous comic book quote alright with great money comes great responsibility.

So what’s critical here is?

is being able to

to navigate your spend in a way that


the engagement

the conversion right that RX behavior so

for example

if you have a budget to spend it might feel great to just try to target in every channel.

That works so long as you’re using a single audience across this channels because now you’re able to compare apples and apples.

So you can see that you know for this particular campaign.

But this particular objective.

Here are my channels that really work well alright and you can dial up or dial down your spend in those accordingly.

And that even goes a step deeper.

Will you social is an example?

it might be that you’ve Legacy you know your Legacy social program is largely been across Mehta


for your particular campaign

with shifting consumer behaviour

you might need to start moving some of those dollars to Snapchat or tiktok.

And if you have different audiences you using across those different channels even inside social.

You really can’t make that comparison really well, you don’t necessarily know.

You know for this particular custom audience.

did it work so

When you have that unified audience right built for your specific campaign.

To your specific.

You know requirements.

You really can start looking at the breadth of channels.


using the ones that mean the most for the people you’re trying to reach right because ultimately what we want is an audience is that that’s going to engage.

because of that ad

and if you’re a not reaching the red audience then.

There goes you spend to begin with but b.

If it’s not where the audience is most likely to actually.

connect with that ad

alright, then, then you might as well.

You know you’re also not necessarily spending as well as you could.


to kind of bring up


what you want is that unified audience across channels that allows you?

to test and measure

outcomes so that you can take those those dollars those increase dollars that everybody is seeing and once again.

Tying it back to what we’ve been trying to hammer home this entire podcast is make those dollars work harder for you.

In the channels where your audience your ideal audience is most likely.


to engage with it to understand what they’re hearing to then go take action.

Visit the website talk to their doctor.


You know end of day what we want to do here is.

Make sure that we’re reaching the right people.

That alright message.

at the right Watering Hole

right, so that they act in a way that we want them to act.

Yes, and you know once you reach the right audience the next step as you say is again. It’s to take action.

With the ultimate goal being say you know RX behaviour.

but the

Is most commonly employed?

As sort of a an Endpoint of marketing or the quote unquote digital home.

Of the campaign along with the typical talk to your doctor message.

But the typical we know as an 80% bounce rate.

So, what’s the solution to like if we’re driving patients to that brand dot calm to?

Making the again the dollars work harder and at the website the microsite.

Right, so yeah, I mean this goes back to.

This ties to all of that shift that we saw in the Healthcare marketers survey.

Um increase budgets shift to channels that are more aligned.

With the modern consumer.

you know

last year Pharma spent 7.5 billion dollar


and to your point Mark

the end the Endpoint has been a that’s really 30 year old experience.

right, it’s a search and scroll experience and

we actually went back and we looked at.

Brands that spent more than 10 million dollars on media last year according to vivec’s.

And then we leveraged some tools that we have to look at you know.

What those bounce rates looked at it actually comes out?

to 79.34%

so you really talk it isn’t it? Really is an 80% bounce rate on these sites.

And what what does that mean? Well? It means that you’ve done all this work?

To reach the right audience in the Channel that they are most likely to engage with.

They have gone and went to your website and now they just left.

Right, they didn’t do anything.

That’s a ton of waste.

so, how do you

Optimise that spend again make those dollars work harder.

And that’s through an ask an answer.

cadence rather than a search and scroll right so

If we get we look at consumer behaviour.

How do we look for something in Google most people are actually asking questions in Google right?

How many albums has Mariah Carey made?

How far is it from Duluth to Lancing


Yes, of course you’re going to search you know.

simple things

but for the majority of the time people are asking questions and now you’re tying in new technology that they’re

that they’re using like judge GPT where it is an ask an answer experienced granted.

We’ll get to our generative AI is a dangerous.

a dangerous place to play when it comes to customer engagement for Pharma


You really have moved as a consumer base on from.

This let me land on a website. Let me go browse it I’ll scroll through individual web pages, nobody wants to do that anymore.

And even if they do it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ve gotten to.

The answer of to the question that they that they originally had and there’s no way for you to be able to tell it.

So you know this brings us to what’s the solution?

You know for us the solution is conversational AI

and we can get a little bit more into into why that is.

okay sure

once you get patients to that you know you’re driving them to that website.

You you see them clicking in different areas of the website.

But they’re not necessarily getting what they want. You know so it doesn’t it could mean.

They’re falling into that big 80% You know bounce rate bucket or basket.

But you know you see it’s kind of intuitive to know that the solution is.

Getting them the answers that they need but you know just to.

Throw out another stat from the survey we saw that.

When we asked people you know what channels. They started investing in you know this year.

Of about eight percent of respondents to the they just started.

investing in Virtual agents in 2023

Is the assumption that it goes up from here?

Yeah, absolutely so our belief.

Right, so that was 8% this past year.

Let’s make let’s say, it’s probably smaller that you’re before right. You know our belief is that in 18 months 18 to 24 months?

You know we’re going to see virtual agent technology across the spectrum of pharmaceutical websites because it’s a natural progression from where they are.


what type of technology?

you know

Is is kind of the next question right and so when people start thinking about virtual agents?

You know often the first thing that comes to mind.

Is is a chatbot well chatbots are terrible we all know that we’ve all engaged with them. We all hate them right.

the button driven conversation

there’s this predetermined Q&A so if you happen to have any sort of

topic that’s not within that restrictive set you’re not going to get the answer that you need and you’re going to have to go call somebody or do some more Googling or searching more on the website right. It’s a really frustrating experience.

And the other end of that spectrum and there’s been a lot of talk.

About this technology over the last 12 months right is generative AI now generative AI has a place in Pharma marketing.

content creations a great example of that when it comes to customer engagement

this is not the place for generative AI

Sure, you can have human like conversations. Yes it understands natural language.


there’s a high likelihood that it can generate non-valid responses.

That’s a real risk right it can hallucinate that is mlr is Nightmare scenario, so when it comes to this type of technology this virtual agent technology.

Generate AI also is not it.

for us

our belief is that conversational AI is it’s sort of the

the Goldilocks of

Of these virtual of this virtual agent technology.

You can have human-like conversation with these agents.

They understand natural language which means.

I can come in and ask what’s the dosing for this?

I can follow it with chemic Grandma take this and then I can follow that with what’s the dosing and the answer I’ll get for that is what a geriatric patients dosing is it understands that context and that Intent


unlike generative AI all of the answers are predetermined so there are mlr approved.

write it can escalate as a as appropriate if someone comes in with a

you know with the

adverse event that they type in to the

that they type into it.

So you have a very?

protected guard railed type of technology

That creates a great user experience that drives high value activity.

That leads to prescription behaviour right that gives you really in.

really interesting data Real-Time voice of the customer data

but all within the safety and security of knowing that the only answers that are ever going to be provided.

are pre-approved

so you end up with this like?

fantastic tech

that has taken now you’re 30 year old.

user experience of a website

Right and launched it into.

the 2020s so we’re really excited about this technology and

you know we

recently conducted a kind of our own survey separately from the hcms with mmm and you know we saw 80 Plus percent of

marketers or either using or exploring this tech

we think it’s the future of customer engagement and we think conversational AI you know really is the Goldilocks of the offerings out there.

That’s really interesting the next question then that this leads to is.

you know do

marketers have the budgets for this.

One challenge remains that as we saw on the Healthcare marketer survey

when we ask the question when you ask the question.

Only 18% of 18.7% of respondents indicated that they actually had budget.

for Virtual agents

yeah, and that’s always going to be the challenge with new technology right is

Who owns it? Where is the budget sit is there even any budget for it? How do I go secure it and so?

You know we want marketers to really dive into this tech.

Obviously in certain organization’s.

There will be a AI task group or an AI center of excellence, let’s say alright.

But it’s really going to be on the marketers to look at what their user experiences their customer experience and go I need this and therefore then, how do you go about?

Securing that budget. How do you go about creating it? Well everybody has their own process they’ve got they’ve gone through it for years right, but when we look at the value that the technology brings and this is where I think that.

you know market is really can take a

can kind of put a stake in the ground and say yes, we need this budget because this is what it can deliver.

you know we’ve seen clients have

up to 800% increases in high value activity

we know how high value activity leads to prescription behaviour.

So that user engagement that customer engagement is so much.

Better bottom of the funnel with this with these conversational AI agents.

that you can point to

right value that leads to

to script outcomes right the second piece of this though.

And this is what we’re really excited about.

Is the data that comes off of these conversations right?

So if you look at a website.


You’ll track clicks.

You’ll track kind of I went from this page to this page, but you never actually know.


Who it was that was engaging or what I shouldn’t say who because it’s all privacy safe.

The type of consumer the type of user that was engaging.

You don’t actually know if they got the answer that they were looking for.

Right because it’s all.

you know it’s kind of like the shadow the Shadows on the wall right we conversational AI

you have

actual one-to-one interaction with the agent


you know that somebody came in and asked a question about.

safety and efficacy you know someone came in and asked a question about dosing or

you know that someone came in and asked a question about savings and support.

Right now you can aggregate this up.

And tie it back to IDS and really start to understand the type of user that’s on the site our 30. You know maybe I’m making I’m making a make these numbers up but

30% of you know the Physicians that came to the site through your advertising.

Might have had questions on.

again on savings and support or



are you running any savings and support or Access messaging through your Media

same thing on the patient side it might be that.

43% of people engaging with the agent

Are taking the medication?


but are seeking

some sort of copay card.


That allows you to transform your future marketing strategy in order to focus on.

What your customers are actually looking for and so this is where that like when you’re talking about like how do I secure more budget for this? How do I

how do I find any budget for this? It’s that?

You have real time voice of the customer data that allows you to push.

write future strategy

to a way that makes your

your spend even more efficient.


kind of going back to the very core theme of this is how do I make my dollars work harder for me?


This is one way to make those dollars work really hard because now you know directly from the user.

What it is that they’re seeking and if they got an answer and if they took a high value activity like downloading a copay card.

And ultimately that leads to positive RX behaviour.


you know we look at it from the context of there’s so much value that these agents spring.


the budget

yes, obviously needs to be secured but it almost becomes.

it becomes a

and yeah absolutely this makes no sense or this makes total sense we have to do this because of the value that we get out of it on the other end from the data.

From the activity from The Script behaviour.

right, everybody’s seeking that alpha you know which is a positive RX behaviour or

you know whatever it is and this can help help get there more quickly.

so right

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We look at it from the context and targeting of audience quality equals script lift right. We know that the higher the audience quality the more script lift that that’s driven. That’s that’s been a

that’s proven leading indicator and we see the same thing with kind of the engagement that comes to these.

Conversational agents right you see that bump in high value act.

activity inside the agent they’re getting the answers that they want that leads to positive RX behavior and so

it just goes back to.

You know the agent brings.

You know if you’re going to invest and we see in the you know we see the numbers in the Healthcare marketers survey if you’re going to invest.

you know

that kind of percentage of your budget in the website.

But the website is a search and scroll experience and even in some instances. There is no search right.

There’s no search box, so if if it’s just going to be this like scrolling and looking experience.

You’re a not.

Leveraging your Media dollars as well as you could because the Endpoint is just not a great.

Is not a great end point.

from user experience perspective

but be you’re also just spending money on a site that ultimately.

Is not performing to the highest level that it possibly could.

virtual agents

particularly conversational AI allows you to juice the performance of your website.

which remains the primary Endpoint of all of the dollars that you put into your Media

yeah, I can foresee you know companies that start using this you know.

Market it.

So to speak at conferences as such you know we’re really juicing the value of our website.

So I could I could foresee this being you know the the future.

of engagement or at least a big part of it so

You know let’s let’s wrap up or move toward wrapping up with one final question here.

I love to touch on some of the top challenges that we heard from marketers and the Healthcare marketing survey.

Three of the top five included medical Legal regulatory approval no big surprise there.

But also customer behaviour change and smaller launch budgets.

How do you see these pieces fitting together?

course so

You know I think product launch is a great example of how all of this technology fits together in a really unique package right.

You have a you have a budget.

Right and now for seeing that.

You know if people are saying that their budget. They’re launched budgets are smaller right. You really need to optimise.

That budget to it the highest degree possible.

And you can do that through custom audiences.

you can do that through predictive AI that allows you to you know as I mentioned earlier target the Physicians most likely to adopt your

your therapy at the most rapid pace.

right or

find those undiagnosed pages patients or find patients on a competitive product that might be.

you know at risk of not adherence right and so

you’re really and then extending those audiences into you know across channels.

So that you can you know again maximise.

The the work that those Dollars are doing to reach the ideal audience.

For this launch right, but the next phase.

is obviously that Endpoint


You know for a product launch talk to your doctor about doctors need to be educated.


That’s the best way to educate your doctor’s.

Right across the you know throughout the Omni channel.


you know includes that website is one of the critical pieces.

And if again it’s a search of scroll website.

If it’s a you know if it’s a suboptimal.

type of experience

the positions aren’t going to get the materials that they need the information that they need necessarily need in order to.

Help make decisions for their patients on this new product.

So similarly on the patient side if it’s not a great experience.

They’re not getting the answers to the questions that they have.

Maybe that physician patient conversation doesn’t go you know.

towards this product right so I think you know product launch is a great example of where this all comes together and

you know if budgets are smaller you need to maximise the value that each dollar brings for you.

And you can only do it leveraging.

You know leveraging this type of technology.

Back to this you know customer behaviour changes right.

This is a great example as well. We have new expect. We have new expectations as consumers right we have.

a shifting physician

you know profile.

as you have increasingly digital natives as as Physicians

and so their expectations on experience whether it’s you know on a website.

How do I want to engage with that website I want to get answers as fast as possible to the questions that I have in my moment of need.

That’s where conversational AI comes in.

Or where they’re actually consuming.

consuming content

you know whether that’s increasing use of

online video whether that’s you know

in some instances literally chord nevers not even chord cutters right.

You know you want to be able to reach them in the channels that they’re most likely.

To take in information.

And then take action on it right and again. We look at.

the custom audiences and having audiences that travel

allows you to really you know find where they are.

And reach them where they are and then lastly to the you know mlr.

You know process.

We know it’s a challenge.

Alright and we know that it can be a challenge to update things right.


If you want to create a better user experience you need to technology that mlr feels really comfortable with.

and that’s where we look at you know something like a conversational AI

where the answers are guardrail right the only answers that are ever given.

Are going to be those that are approved by mlr.

they can feel

Confident in the information that’s being provided to patients and also it has the ability to escalate.

So again if somebody comes in.

somebody comes in with an

adverse event right or some sort of product quality complaint

That gets flagged that gets.

flagged and sent in

to the appropriate processes in place at the Farmer organisation.

so again there’s it’s it’s

you know conversational AI is that Goldilocks of Engagement


you have a really good user experience this open language.

natural language understanding

but also

you know that warm blanket.

that that you know folks need in order to feel confident that the technology is going to

deliver things and they compliant way. Yes so warm black and indeed.

and those three challenges are like a microcosm of

or Pharma brand managers probably feel the there are they are right now okay, we saw.

marketing budgets up overall but

Easy come easy go when it comes to budget your next budget is dependent on your most recent performance.

And you know customer behaviour change it’s what it’s all about. You know getting doctors and patience like you said to to change their behaviour overcoming that inertia.

You know helping them find answers fast which leads to the conversational AI piece.

And mlr approval obviously you know that doesn’t go away. So how do we do it all compliantly?

And you really address those so.

Thank you Peter for that deeper look at the hcms. Especially the data around predictive AI conversational AI

And what it pretends for the future of Pharma marketing so it was great to hear get your take.

and hear how you frame the meaning behind the numbers so

Thank you awesome. Thank you. Mark I really appreciate doing this you know I

I find this stuff really fascinating right. I love to see what.

You know what marketers are saying and then we go and we look at the you know the real data.

the real behaviour

and you know we kind of try to figure out. You know where their gaps where their opportunities and how can we help you know this industry continue to

as I said make those dollars work harder.

And reach patients and providers at the right moment in time to drive you know positive outcomes.

Absolutely a lot of fun to teasing out the the meaning behind the numbers with you.

For more data and trends our hcms coverage story will be posting online.

Again, the first week of April which is next week. We’re taking this the last week of March

with the print issue arriving in your office mail Room very shortly.

And Peter has a piece in their about.

Conversational AI and why the time is ripe for more budgets around that.

Those who have any questions can email Peter with their AI integration questions or contact him through mm.

to that end, let’s have another conversation that was Peter Kane

many thanks for listening.

Come back soon for another one. This is Marcus goods for the mmm podcast take care everybody.