MM+M Transform 2024 preview: Northwell’s Ramon Soto and Lilly’s Derek Asay

Hey, it’s Marc. It’s Transform Week here at the magazine and so – as part of MM+M’s promotional push around the event – our guests for this episode have been drawn from the ranks of Transform’s top-notch faculty. You know, the theme of our spring conference has morphed since we launched the meeting back in 2015. But one thing that’s remained constant – and which our attendees have consistently enjoyed – is how we bring the worlds of biopharma, payer, provider and patient together for a bunch of highly relevant – and relatable – conversations with top-level speakers. After all, gathering all of these industry stakeholders together in one room is exactly what’s necessary in order to drive a system-wide, transformative effect. So this year, we’re leaning into our strength…and deconstructing what readers know as “the 3 Ps” – exploring the intersectionality of pharma marketing’s essential constituencies: patients, providers and payers. The litany of high-profile speakers represents the full spectrum of healthcare firms, ranging from insurer Elevance Health to health system Virtua Health, and from patient group the Arthritis Foundation to the two drugmakers leading the megablockbuster GLP-1 revolution. On this week’s show, two of those speakers – Ramon Soto, chief marketing officer of Northwell Health, and Derek Asay, SVP, government strategy and federal accounts at Eli Lilly – will offer a sneak preview of discussion points for their panels – Ramon for his session, “All Signal and No Static: AI is Not Coming to Replace You,” which is part of a mini-track devoted to AI, and Derek for his session, “Moving Toward Weight-Loss Equity,” which will discuss recent developments in the payer market that could lead to wider coverage for anti-obesity medications and the ramifications therein. I’ll be interviewing Ramon and my colleague Jack O’Brien will be interviewing Derek. We hope you enjoy this Transform preview podcast, and we hope to see everyone at the conference tomorrow. a Marcus with editor at large and welcome to the M&M podcast medical marketing media show at Healthcare marketing RIT large We’re speaking today with northwell Health remote Soto Chief marketing officer Ramen. How are you today? And welcome to the amendment podcast doing well. Thanks so much for having me. Looking forward to Super interesting conversation about the future absolutely likewise, you know when you and I last spoke and by the way, we’re speaking a couple of days prior to mmm’s Spring conference. Mmm transform which is taking place in New York City on April 3rd, and you’re going to be on a panel talking about AI so this is going to be a discussion about the future of healthcare like you said with a little bit of emphasis on technology, but also wanted to kind of set the stage a little bit. You know, when you want to last spoke in september 22, the country was in a better place from covid, but the death toll from the pandemic had had crossed at that at that point at the one millionth threshold coronavirus certainly had reset the way consumers in this era think about an approach their well-being and you kind of Leverage that reset to ref. Name northwell Zone marketing approach to the doctor-patient relationship and Health Systems Health Systems as a whole were in the midst of this pivot toward being seen as a resource for maintaining good health and competing for mind share as healthy destinations rather than places one goes to for sick here. So with all of that as kind of as background, what’s the state of marketing for Health Systems to these days and how does technology fit into that you know covid is probably one of those categories that nobody ever wants to talk about so we can address it very quickly in this podcast covid was this incredible shock to the system. From a cultural standpoint from societal standpoint from socioeconomic standpoint from an economic standpoint. Really pushed the world out of equilibrium. And while we have settled in on managing the physical crisis, it’s still manifests itself in a in a number of ways throughout Society. So you pick your poison and we’re still out of equilibrium. Now, most people will probably associate it with an environment that Is challenging for consumers from an inflationary front, you know arguably globally competition is has gotten into a different place. But Health Systems themselves are still working their way through that in 23. Actually in 22 2/3 of Health Systems lost money. I think that got a little bit better last year with half of Health Systems losing money. Clearly. That trend is not our friend. And from a marketing standpoint it puts extra Challenge on us. You know, there’s not extra dollars to go around so our dollars have to work hard for the interests of the health system and its core form marketing is meant to match those who have Healthcare needs with our services. In an environment with consumers have a plethora of choices on where to get their health care. So we have to work hard to be much more efficient and much more thoughtful about how we engage with consumers how we drive relevant messaging for them so that they know us before they need us. And that has led to a tremendous amount of experimentation including AI on how do you make the dollar stretch farther? How do you drive that that future engagement? How do you make sure that each touchpoint is relevant and you understand what the consumer engagement in that touchpoint is and reflect on that so that it leads to a more productive next touch. So we’ve been active users of AI where tend to be quite optimistic about the future, but it is a really challenging environment. And a lot of that was was a direct result of covid and you’re working in the hyper-competitive New York metro area, which makes things even more interesting. This is I I tell my my team and the physicians in our organization. And for the your audience just a reminder Northwest. It’s the largest health system in the Metro New York Market. We treated about six million New Yorkers. Each year, we have about 85,000 employees 21 hospitals 5000 employed Physicians but a network of 21,000 doctors. And we compete in this place. That is a knife fight every day. For market share and it’s not just any volume. It’s commercially insured because that’s what pays the bills in in at least this economic environment. I remember you used that same terminology. It’s a knife fight every day back in. Well the Night Flight hasn’t gotten any easier. But yeah, and and I would imagine using AI in a way you described it to understand each touchpoint and then make sure that the next one, you know predictably is going to be the most productive one as well kind of helps you and then Endeavour and you know, my next question is going to kind of also sort of bring us up to the present from the past. When I look at the marketing efforts that your shop has executed since we last spoke you had the gun violence campaign late 22, you had the docu drama Linux Hill which kind of gave you words let them inside the inner working of an inner city Hospital, you know during a very turbulent time. Then you had the raising Health campaign in 23 with the solvers. What would you been trying to accomplish with these and again perhaps how technology has complimented those efforts? Yeah. So what’s interesting is I hopefully you’re you’re audience will appreciate this because consumers have great choices we have to differentiate our brand you know, we already have competitors who have affiliations with ivy league institution’s long legacies of incredible care in the New York Market legitimately New Yorkers have great choices, so For northwell because we’re a 30 year old brand. There’s actually a tremendous amount of Freedom with that with that youth that comes with thinking of how we engage with consumers differently and we take that the heart in terms of how we Market ourselves. So what we try to do is really Define the healthcare Junior Journey on consumers terms and think of it longitudinally. So if you look at most health system marketing it tends to focus on the transaction. I’m the best heart. Care specialist in region, you know us news and world report number 27 in the nation so much of that stuff going on and I’m frankly not a big fan of it because it’s confusing to Consumers. Can’t help me. I can’t tell you how many number one is there are in a New York Market. It’s it is it’s a ridiculous place to be so if you flip that on its head and instead of us talking to Consumers start listening to them how they Define health is different. It’s a journey takes place over time means different things at different life stages. So if you’re trying to have them know us before they need us really being thoughtful about where they are on their Journey. And how to engage with them with meaningful messages is critically important and that’s why we move down this purpose-driven brand route. Where consumers because that they Define that Health as a journey Healthcare as a journey, they’re interested in other things, you know gun violence. When we launched that campaign in 22, that was the second most prevalent issue in consumers Minds. Right behind the economy Healthcare in general as related to the pandemic was number seven. So here we are tackling an issue that they say is important to them. We get credit as a brand for that. And by the way all are research exists that because we do that we actually drive purchased preference into our institutions. There’s actually tangible economic benefit by speaking in relevant terms to them. Purpose Driven marketing is core to what we do we all try to engage differently and that’s why we do the documents. You mentioned Atlantic hill we all know did we did our second project with Netflix called emergency NYC. That was even more impactful than the Lenox Hill. That was the 5th. fifth most popular streaming show on all streaming in March and April of 2023 hundreds of millions of Impressions 20% of the New York Market saw the show The Brand perspective of northwell after seeing that eighth episode docky drama super powerful. So another front in which we were experimenting and then the circle it back to AI. You know I mentioned because Healthcare is in this tough economic straight every dollar has to be justified. So how do I drive productivity of my Workforce? So that they can fulfill the enhanced requirements of the job. Each year, we get more requests not less requests from our partners and I have to be intelligent about how I execute that and AI is a what can be a wonderful productivity tool. But it’s also a tool that we’ve used from a legacy standpoint for years. You know, we’ve been doing large language models and and natural language processing at our call center to understand call intention capturing that data back feeding it to our CMM platform to rounding out our perspective of a consumer’s marrying that with clinical data. So that we can get to this really deep degree of personalization and Outreach focus on customer loyalty and retention. Four times less expenses to keep somebody than to acquire a new customer. So how do I keep them in the family particularly when they’re splitting behavior on how they make their choices in healthcare who they partner with, you know, the more acute a condition. The more consumer will shop for the right partners for them. And how we make sure that that we have all that knowledge that so that we’re guiding them down to healthcare path not placing the burden of this Healthcare Journey on that. So we’ve we’re really trying to use every tool that are disposal to go to market differently. And go to market powerfully and and really build a brand and we’ve had great success all our brand message metrics are historic highs. Traditional funnel metrics net promoter school or likelihood the recommend really proud of the team and where we are and I think there’s a bit of a playbook for the rest of the marketplace to learn from on some of the things that we’ve experimented with. Create to that end, you know, given all those positive metrics. Is there one tip that you could share from that Playbook with with the audience in terms of using AI to the greatest effect in terms of differentiation or customer retention that kind of thing. I think the mindset needs to be. one of experimentation Because we don’t really have the model yet. I think there’s a lot of hope you know, what excites the marketplace now is is the generative nature of AI and this the self-learning aspect of what the future looks like, and I think that holds great promise some would argue great Peril, too. So we need to be careful but You know if you if you don’t use chat GPT daily. And I personally I’m a big fan of Microsoft’s co-pilot. Strong tool you can use it with chat GPT or its own data structure. To run your queries. You should be using this every day. Like this thing is it’s transformative and you can’t be afraid of it. You gotta lean into it. Oh, you got to experiment with it. You got to have like this learning perspective on what is this thing? And how can it help us? So it’s the first thing the second thing is that I would argue that. there is super low hanging fruit that is already there that that organizations need to take advantage of and a lot of shops are already doing stuff like this, but we have so much writing that goes through our shop. thousands of pieces of collateral materials of campaigns over the course of the year Do you think about the process of doing that content creation? It’s a blank sheet of paper a brief and then I got to write something up and if you can use some of these AI tools to run that first version of content. It allows you to leverage your your human capital at the highest level possible. So, you know copper writers can turn in transition into copy editors. And you can increase the throughput of your organization without adding staff. And it can help weed out low value out of work. And help produce High value-added work. We’re literally first draft, you know. the times it’s 60 to 80% done and then your adding value in terms of the nuances of the content that you’re creating or adding perspective more thoughtful perspective on the consumer aspect. And that’s not just in the copyrighting piece as well. There’s there’s the creation of art videography photography. We just started to use a an AI program to generate music so that I don’t have to pay licensing fees and it generates original scores for us. And it just those scores become proprietary in nature for Northwest. So we’ve been able to weed out costs and increase productivity and think about the value of that in this environment where we’re not getting more dollars. We’re getting less dollars in the future. How do I fulfill that? I apologize for long-winded answer but I’m excited about this category and topic and I do think You know Health Systems don’t get ahead of this curve. They’re going to be a victim of it because their competitors are going to adopt Ai and I think pretty aggressively. I’m sure that message is resonating, you know, in terms of weeding out costs increasing productivity because everybody’s facing the cause crunch as you said from a health system perspective and wondering how they can do this safely, you know, which leads to the final my final question in terms of the watch outs and we all know there’s Things that generate AI or conversational AI or appropriate for in the marketing world and there’s other things that are best left to the humans. So to speak if there’s one kind of watch out. Will that be you know, the biggest watch out for me is again this it’s part of this experimentation, but how do humans show up in the link in the process? So think of AI as a way to generate labor And you have to think through how do I divide my labor for the best outcome and organization? And in this case the labor is a machine versus people and the Machine can do things super efficiently and in some cases more efficiently than the individual. But it’s the power in it is the connection of the two. So where does the human show up? I would hate if you ran through some chatbot. Your social media posts and then it’s on an automated process and you’re just pushing content out because you have to have somebody who’s reviewing that content. For its impact and its tonality and is he getting it right and you see an organizations? get themselves in trouble with generating content and posting content you have that I forgot which organization was but you had the an incident where someone was doing it to depiction of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and it depicted a visual of an African-American in that audience and that just shows the bias that’s inherent in the large language models and the data sets that this is exposed to so you have to have people there who are going to interpret that bias and weed out that bias. So you don’t get yourself in to unintentional trouble. I think they’ll get better over time. You know, I’m super optimistic. The second piece to watch out for is you know, it’s a long line is of unintended consequences and this this generative nature the self-learning nature of this. You know, where does that take us? You know what happens when you and I talked about this before Mark what happens when AI meets Quantum Computing, you know, that kind of makes my head explode a little bit. And how do you get ahead of that? And how do you control that? And what does it mean that starts to look a little on the dark side? Which is interesting and something that we all have to be conscious about watch out for sure in the health area. Of course. Absolutely. Listen you we have Phi you have you have we have incredible data on consumers and the more we can use AI to see the Unseen. The more powerful the interaction can be with the consumer and the more perilous. It could possibly be as well. You don’t want to reveal too much about that. That personal information about the consumer at same time. You want to have a personal interaction with them? So what’s that fine line? And I don’t know what the Tipping Point is on it. It’ll be really interesting for us to to explore it be cautious but go headlong into the future because this is where this is where the Market’s going create. Well, the Northwest has since you arrived always, you know been utilizing the marketing channels to ensure that the marketplace is filled with credible authoritative information because it’s such a need for that obviously these days and I like how you kind of see the conversation for Wednesday in terms of going a couple of layers deep but leaving a lot of questions, you know, perhaps for further discussion, so I want to thank you so much for taking the time today to have this discussion. Mark, an absolute pleasure. Looking forward to our panel on Thursday. Come on down. If you get a chance, it should be it should be a gangbuster. Absolutely. Definitely some topical subjects to be discussed. Again. It’s called all signal and no static AI is not coming to replace you. It’s taking place this Wednesday April 3rd from 10:45 to 11:15 at the mmm transform conference. You can find out more information about the conference by going to MMM transform online.com and ramen. We’ll see you Wednesday continue the conversation very excited and thanks again for joining us. Peace. Derek it’s wonderful to have you on the show. How are you doing today? I’m great Jack thrilled to be with you today. And I’m gonna be thrilled to have you in person on our panel that we’re hosting Wednesday morning for those that aren’t going to be able to make the event or maybe those that are going to make the event that are anticipating our conversation. What are we going to be focusing on at our panel overall on weight loss Equity. I think there’ll be a particular focus on access and affordability is where I really want to focus in my discussion and I’m curious from your perspective because obviously there are so many different angles that people have taken in terms of conversation around this so called glp-1 Revolution that we’ve seen and access and Equity keep coming up as things that need to be considered both by the drug makers by providers by patients all that sort of stuff as it relates to you and coming from Lily’s perspective. What are some of the biggest factors in relation to access. I know there’s obviously the payer coverage issue. They’re still a stigmatization the cost Factor what really stands out on your end. Yeah, I think Think for me personally and for the company one of the biggest factors is ensuring Medicare coverage for these medications as you probably know since the time that the Medicare Part D benefit was passed in 2003 Medicare has taken the interpretation that weight loss drugs are excluded from coverage and they made an important Advance about two weeks ago on March 20th where they issued guidance to the plans that said look for for these FDA approved glp drugs. So the weight loss drugs and diabetes drugs when they get ones that are indicated for obesity when they get follow on indications, so think things like cardiovascular disease risk reduction those types of things which we saw other was announcement a couple weeks ago about that plans can cover those additional indications immediately. So we felt that was a really good Advance forward. They did say that plans are able to implement utilization management. Laws to ensure that only patients with that specific condition get access to the drug. But still it’s an important Advanced forward. Now, there’s still much more work to be done. You know, we strongly believe that the Medicare needs to cover drugs for obesity broadly not just for those additional indications and there’s a number of ways that that could happen. It could be through, you know, a different interpretation for Medicare could be through the passage of a piece of legislation known as the tree and reduce obesity act trauma which has broad bipartisan support. And so we look forward to any one of those actions to ensure that there is equity in coverage of obesity medications. And for those people that are overweight with comorbid conditions. And I am kind of curious you talked about that decision by Medicare a couple weeks ago which followed the fda’s expansion of Wego V’s indication curious. When you talk about kind of that room for improvement, is that something that you’re expecting to see in the next couple months because we saw that domino effect happen rather quickly between the FDA decision and CMS coming out with that announcement for something larger to happen in terms of expanding access. Is that something you’re looking by year-end? Is that into next year? Was that look like on the horizon? I don’t think we have a specific timeline for that Jack. I was we would love to happen as soon as possible. This was an important advance, but obviously if we’re looking at a piece of legislation like Troy it I was in congress’s hands and we’ll see how fast they move on the CMS front if it was broader. I think it would take a reinterpretation of how they’ve looked at that market historically so I don’t have a specific time table. It’s just it’s a priority I think for for us and for all the patients that are effective with this disease and can you Talk about it from a disease aspect. It’s one of the things I think it’s been really interesting or the past couple months is been this kind of I want to say realization, but it’s there’s certainly been a lot more conversation about obesity as a disease as a chronic condition rather than what I think a lot of people for decades held it as which was lifestyle choices some sort of a character failing and that that seated into you know issues around coverage as related to payers and around what it was classified from your perspective. How is that changed over the years because it’s been very interesting. It’s on the insurance side of things where it’s like no we can cover this or there is a use case for covering this rather than oh no, this is something that somebody brought on themselves know, I think that’s a great point. And when you look at obesity, I think you know historically unfortunately, I think it was looked at, you know and weight loss largely as a cosmetic type of thing and I think there’s been a number of changes in the clinical societies over over time and obesity is clearly now recognized by and large by all the clinical societies. Is a chronic progressive disease that’s really Beyond an individual person’s control and something that can bury from person to person and and make weight loss very difficult to achieve and maintain and so, you know, we think there’s a big big difference and I think that’s some of the you know, look at the Historical place where CMS has been one that the drugs that treated obesity were much different back then and very much lower degrees of weight loss. And I think the disease was looked at much differently back then really not even looked at as a disease. So I think this is society we’ve made great strides. You know now we just need to get to broader access for these life changing medications. I wanted to ask you as a relates to having the greater access part of the conversation. I think it’s where Equity comes into obviously different patient populations have different risk factors and history and stuff like that even just access to these drugs because they’re still relatively expensive at this point if you don’t have insurance coverage, For it. How do we overcome that? I know that that always comes back to the payer side of the conversation but there are different patient populations that I know are probably going to try and get access to this. But at this point they probably think oh unless I’m a celebrity or unless I meet these X criteria. It’s still out of my grass to a certain extent. You know, that’s a great question Jack. I think we Have made a lot of progress already. There’s clearly more work to be done. But if you look at you know, the number of different pairs that have started adding a coverage for these medications one. If you look at the federal employee health plans, so the office of personnel management as well as the Department of Veterans Affairs have both added. coverage of these obesity medications and about 20 medications Now cover obesity medications which for people that are, you know lower income and in the country and rely on Medicaid for coverage of 20 now and there’s a number of additional States that are looking at this I think when you think broadly about obesity, there’s about 200 conditions that are related to obesity. I think many people now recognize that and so it’s important if you can treat the underlying condition here, it can make a big difference and so a number of pairs and including on the employer side are starting to to realize that so we’ve got like I said much much more work to be done, but I think we’re making some really strong Headway to ensure and broader coverage at the entire level whether it be a government or commercial pair and you brought up a really interesting other factor in all this which is the employer side of things what has been your conversations or at least the the response that you’ve seen in the employer Market because obviously they’re seeing it and they’re you know a JP Morgan have their study out where it’s like if we had widespread adoption glp, once we could see the GDP Rise by 1% There is obviously an interest in oh my if my workers are not going to get as sick or develop these chronic conditions that keep them out of work that you know, have them take time off. That’s something that we want access to what has been their role in all this or if there are many sort of conversations that you’ve had with them that leads you to think like, oh there could be, you know action or persuasion on that side. Yeah, and I’m not had Direct conversations, but we have a team that works with employers and I think even though our drugs that bound is just been on the market for about four months. I think the conversation so far have been very encouraging and we’ve seen, you know, broader opt-in over time and over the last several years even before we came to Market in this space. And so I think yes, there is the drug cost but I think in many cases, you know people are looking at the broader picture in terms of how what the value and you look at how much the country spending on BC character directly every year. I think many employers and others are looking at that as a way to say. Hey, is it a good spin today to try to potentially have a healthier population of employees and you know their their family members and so forth. I am curious from your perspective too as we look at the we’ve talked about obviously the statement aspect and how that’s bled into the insurance side of things what other misconceptions are there around the access issue in the glp-1 discussion that you want to clarify or that you’re looking forward to having when we have our panel on Wednesday. Yeah, I think there’s there is Some discussion on cost and so often people refer to the list price which for whether it’s Zeppelin or competitor each year over 1,000. Is that bound just over a thousand dollars, but importantly even for patients that have You know commercially insured patients that their pairs or their employers have chosen not to cover. We do have a cash, you know option that’s available for about half of that list price so for 550 a month and so again, not something that everyone can afford but substantially less than what that list price is. And so I think there are a number of options and even when patients that are who are commercially insured but they may be in a high ductable health plan or have higher cost sharing. We do have a very robust copay support program for those commercially insured patients that can buy down that co-pay to you know to little as 25 dollars for one month or up to three months apply copay cards are prohibited in federal health care programs, but it does provide an important option for for your commercial insurance patients. And I’m curious with everything that you’re overseeing as it relates to Lily. How does the introduction of Lily direct impact any of this if it does at all? I’m just curious because it’s so interesting to see where this is. Obviously a play to say we’re going right to the consumer. We want them to have the freedom and access that is obviously plaguing this whole process. Is that impact anything as it relates to your side of the business. Yeah. I think from from where where I said, I think it’s just where the company is positional Lily directors provide another option for for patients. It’s not to replace a patient or physician relationship or even a patient relationship with their Pharmacy. But what we know is that patients have one have sometimes have a difficult time getting in to see a physician or maybe they don’t have a physician. So there’s an option for the patient to go to Independent, you know be linked to an independent Physician Group would tell a health if they so choose and then on the pharmacy side you have been shortages Lloyd directs not going to solve them shortages. I think there’s even been articles out on some of our partners on really direct even and within the last week I’ve had shortages on our medications are medications, but what we know that sometimes Pharmacy might not have it or might not want to fill it if they’re reimbursements not as strong as this provides another option for patients to do, you know Order at their choice again not required but an option and then I think the one of the really big pluses of Lloyd direct is it is provides automatic application of our copay assistance programs right at that point of sale, which doesn’t always happen maybe in the you know, a retail pharmacy may not know what’s available from a copay assistance standpoint. And that’s one of the big pluses of Lloyd direct and then lastly I think just on patient support education provides it there. So what we’re trying to do is just to make the system a little bit more streamlined less barriers to access to care. It’s not perfect but we were off to a great start with it and learning a lot as we’re progressing with really direct and you talk about that educational aspect too how much it goes into investing the resources the manpower to do that because you know, I’ve covered this industry now going on my seventh year and I think I know it pretty well and they’re still alive things that come up that are confusing that you want clarification on I can imagine to the Layman I think of you know, Know an aunt or an uncle that’s going through this that’s trying to understand. Hey, what’s my coverage option for here, or how can I get access to these drugs? Was that go into your side as the drug maker saying this is how we’re gonna educate consumers about you know, where they stand in terms of their coverage and you know, the whole pair of it all. Yeah, and I think that’s a huge piece that you mentioned, you know answer uncles I do the same thing and I actually talked to one of my colleagues who the other day whose on the brand Team for these drugs and same thing with with him and helping to one help family members navigate the system and I think that’s the beauty of Lloyd directors trying to put that all on one place to assist patients in making a little smoothir process. So again, and you know with these drugs there is unprecedented demand. And so that patients may see intermittent, you know outages at the pharmacy and so forth. We continue to supply the market with both but give that unprecedented demand. Sometimes there is challenges and One Pharmacy not having it maybe having to check with another Pharmacy and I think you’re trying to put Lloyd direct again. There’s not that it’s going to you know Guarantee Supply at our low direct Partners, but it just is one more option for patients to be able to to potentially find a solution which is all they’re looking for at the end of days just having that freedom and the flexibility to go for a treatment. I’ve really appreciated you being on the show here. I’m very excited about our panel. I think we’re gonna have so many strings to pull on and we have, you know, two other guests they’re going to be joining us as well. I just want to follow up our conversation here with a look at you know, if we had this conversation back in April of 23 Zeppelin wasn’t on the market yet that in that was still at a time where glp ones were getting so much popularity and attention if we were to have this conversation April of 25. What do you think the situation looks like? What’s the dynamic in your mind? And how is Lily best prepared to kind of navigate? Whatever that looks like? Well, I think what we’re hoping is that we get continued advancement. It’s on the access from particularly with payer coverage. I think as people continue to understand the value of these products and the value that they can provide to society as a whole not beyond the individual patient. I hope what we continue to see that broader access, and we’ve said Supply will be a challenge for some time, but hopefully as we start to move in to 25 you start to see that situation to improve as well because they’re continues to be unprecedented and demand for all these products and we want to make sure ultimately that everybody that that needs to have access and can have access to these important drugs. Awesome. Well Derek, it was wonderful having you on the show here again, looking forward to Wednesday morning, and I encourage everyone our audience. If you haven’t already bought a ticket, please do it’s gonna be a wonderful discussion. So thank you again for coming on here and giving us a preview of the event. Thanks Jack great to spend some time with you. Look forward to seeing you on Wednesday. Thanks for listening to this. Mmm transform 2024 preview podcast. Now that was Ramon Soto of northwell health and Eliza Derek assay, please be sure to join us next week on the podcast as our focus on Health System marketers continues with special guests devika Authority Chief marketing and Communications officer at New York Presbyterian. That’s it for this week. The mmm podcast is produced by Bill Fitzpatrick Gordon failure. Lesbian Boucher and Jack O’Brien. Our theme music is by cesium sohn rate review and follow every episode wherever you listen to podcasts new episodes out every week and be sure to check out our website. Mmm online.com for the top news stories and farmer marketing. That’s it for this week. The mmm podcast is produced by Bill Fitzpatrick Gordon failure. Lesbian Boucher and Jack O’Brien. Our theme music is by cesium sohn rate review and follow every episode wherever you listen to podcasts new episodes out every week and be sure to check out our website. Mmm online.com for the top news stories and farmer marketing.