Digital Editor Jack O’Brien interviews Seattle Children’s Candi Nicholson and Little Hands of Stone’s Michael Boychuk about their recent PSA, which urges Gen X parents to just ask their Gen Z kids about suicide. 

Senior reporter Lecia Bushak offers an update on the pharma industry’s IRA legal setback, as well as Sen. Bernie Sanders’ inquiry into the prices of Novo Nordisk’s GLP-1 drugs. 

Plus, Boehringer Ingelheim’s latest schizophrenia activation tops our Trends segment, along with items on Klick’s cancer and school shooting ad as well as Chipotle’s $1 million burrito pledge to HCPs. 

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Hey it’s Marc If you’re a parent, and especially if you have the distinct pleasure of currently raising any Gen-Z teens, i think you’re going to appreciate this week’s interview. My colleague Jack O’Brien spoke with the marketers behind a very special PSA. It’s for the 9-8-8 suicide and crisis lifeline – but aimed at teens and adolescents before they go into crisis mode and need to call a 9-8-8. Candi Nicholson, director of brand and creative services at Seattle Children’s, and Michael Boychuk, cofounder of the Seattle-based ad agency Little Hands of Stone, worked off the insight that kids are actually ready to talk about suicide, which is the #2 cause of death in this age group.  It’s parents who are the ones holding back. That became the linchpin for the strategy.  But that wasn’t even the most surprising insight they learned. To hear that i strongly suggest you listen to Jack’s interview. At the age of 18, Boychuk lost his father to suicide. So this assignment was intensely personal for him.  But for any parent who’s struggled to connect with their teenager in a loving way about sensitive issues, incl their mental health, you’ll appreciate the pressure both he and Nicholson felt to not mess this up. Suffice it to say, despite all the eyerolls, kids are more open to these kinds of discussions than they may let on. And, as facilitated by Jack, our guests also share how they pulled their research and insights into a compelling creative execution and media plan.   For those set to judge a certain awards show this summer – hint, hint – this case study has all the elements you’ll want to look for when evaluating podium-worthy work. This week on the show, the duo behind a PSA that gives parents a loving pep talk about how to talk to Gen Z kids about suicide.  And Lecia’s here with a health policy update…  Hey Marc, today there’s multiple items on the drug pricing policy front. First, a federal judge threw out two cases by drugmakers who were seeking to challenge the Inflation Reduction Act. And Sen. Bernie Sanders has launched an investigation into the high prices of Novo Nordisk’s weight loss drugs, Ozempic and Wegovy. And Jack, what’s trending in healthcare social media this week? This week, we’re talking about Boehringer Ingelheim’s latest schizophrenia activation, Klick’s cancer and school shooting ad and Chipotle’s $1 million burrito pledge to HCPs. Wanted to thank you both for spending the time with us and delving into this really interesting campaign candy. I want to throw the first question over to you. If you can just kind of goes a high level overview of what the campaign entailed and what its mission was. so as a periphery in healthcare, since I’m in marketing we work for sort of the overall system of Seattle Children’s and the request that came to us was to work on a PSA. For 988 and of 988 is the mental health sort of Crisis Line. However, 988 does a lot more than just crisis, but it’s It’s associated with 911 and 988 is sort of Crisis oriented what we are trying to do with the levels of emergency room visits for mental health issues and behavioral health issues is to sort of catch before you need 988 and so the notion of this PSA is to really think about what do you need to do before we even get to the crisis moment? And so as we see this big influx of kids and teens coming into the Ed we just recognized that there’s another way to go about this. So I had worked with little hands of stone in the past and know that they are incredibly strategic and could take this this issue in this notion and and really bring it to life in a really poignant manner. I don’t have a lot of bureaucracy here. I get to sort of decide like how we go about doing this. And so I knew pitching it to little hands would be a really great solution and as it turned out it really really has been. And they can talk about a little bit of the research they did but we did solicit like a lot of our mental health Team family advisory groups a teen groups and all of that was led by little hands and Mike. I want to bring you into the conversation there. So you kind of have this background in this context that candy and her team at the hospital are coming to you with how do you go in a creative Direction? Because I know it’s one of those things where you’re talking about mental health and there’s all sorts of different Avenues. You can go down especially as it relates to teens and adolescents. Where is that going in terms of creative Direction? I’ll talk about process before I get to that. This is an intensely personal for me. I several years ago. I had simultaneously the highest point in my career in the lowest point in my personal life happened over the same weekend when my daughter was in crisis actually at children dealing with anxiety issues and I lost my father at the age of 18 to Suicide. So I this is a very personal topic for me, but our process starts with really diving And and doing immersion and talking to the experts that know much more than we do about this very important topic and strategies always important to get right. This is one that we absolutely could not get wrong for a lot of obvious reasons, but we talked to the experts on the children’s side and there’s some really great Advocates over there that talk to us about the fact that suicide is a huge problem. It’s a number two cause of death and kids are ready to talk about it and and you know, it’s just it’s just it’s very interesting that kids now are so ready to speak about their anxiety. And this is kind of this covid generation that they’re ready to go but parents are holding back so that kind of decaying the Lynch pin for our strategy and developing the work. But as I said that really started with immersion and talking to the experts and just hearing them out and trying to turn that into something that we could use to to drive to work. And what was that end result in terms of the work that actually was produced. Well it led to kind of a few insights one of which is just what we call exposure therapy, which is just flashing the the question up in in front of kids and adults to say are you thinking about suicide and and what we heard from the experts loud and clear on the children’s side is that asking the question does not lead to more risk that children will will do this. It’s kind of like talking about sex or drugs. I mean having the conversation is really where it all starts as a parent but no one’s talking about about suicide. And so the heart of the spot is really flashing that question non-stop up on the screen for 60 seconds. And then the other Insight was that it’s from the voice of the team speaking to adults and we did the whole spot in the style of the PowerPoint deck. So there’s this phenomenon. I’m sure of a lot of parents out there. They’re listening to this have experienced this but kids create PowerPoint decks and other very creative whether it’s to To go to a Taylor Swift concert or to buy a pet rabbit. I mean, they love to put these things together to convince parents to do something they want them to do and so the whole spot is done essentially in PowerPoint with some videos and and really channeling the voice of a team telling parents. Just ask this question. It’s an act of love. You’re not nothing bad’s gonna happen. We need to have this conversation just do it and we’ve gotten a really great great response and then I will say just the last piece is just the children’s team supporting running this regionally on the Oscars was very important because media is as important as strategy and creative and and airing it when kids and parents are sitting on the couch together watching I think is really key to triggering this important conversation for people and candy. I want to bring you back in the conversation because obviously you come to them and you say here’s this. Concept that we’re trying to put out there we’re trying to do this prevents. And so when you talk about the preventive medicine where everyone talks about that as it relates to all different facets of care, but probably none is more important than suicide and mental health just because that’s ultimately won the you can’t come back from what was your reaction when they said hey here is the creative that we’ve come back to you with. I you know it with the with the Strategic insights that they pulled and garnered and gathered it made all the sense in the world and we were so thrilled with the idea of this being preventative before 9/98 as you see on the on the PSA. There is no 988 number. it is ask the experts at Seattle Children’s and of course 90 days is an option, but let’s really talk about the issue and ask the question and one of the things that I thought was really profound that they did and that we helped facilitate was this discussion with these teen kids and you know walking in with this concept and really sitting down with these kids that actually Have this experience and have issues potentially. They were like don’t make this a joke at all. Like this is real and we listen to our parents. We roll our eyes and we say, you know, you don’t know what you’re talking about, or I know I know but they are listening and that was a really strong feedback that they had is, you know, You can walk right into this we are ready and you know using those insights and using that Intel and focus group was really really helpful. And that’s when we kind of knew we were on the right track for sure. I’m really interested in like maybe I want to throw the question over to you and they can’t get your insights on it too is just this Evolution that we’ve seen in terms of raising awareness around mental health. Obviously, you know, I’m I’m almost 30 years old and I know that growing up it was one of those things where it was sort of more talked about and I guess previous generations, but still not that much and it’s been so insightful especially talking to you both about the fact that you involved teens and young adults who have a much more open relationship in terms of talking about anxiety their feelings depression all that sort of stuff. So, what is that meant from an advertising perspective in terms of talking about this issue you say candy to not make a joke out of it and not make it light but to underscore the severity Mike would that mean to you as a creative in terms of pursuing these types of projects? Well, we brought on a young creative team early on to work on this and and really the they talked about. Suicide and and mental health awareness in a way that you know, I’m I’m a lot older than 54 so I’m not used to talking about this. I mean, I you know, I kind of cringe when I see it, but but kids are ready to talk about it and that was kind of if there was a light switch moment. That was it that they’re open to it is really the opening and also the fact that three and four parents are unaware that this is happening to kids where parents are saying, you know horribly tragically after the fact we had no idea. So at that point, we just saw the tension between those two facts and the opportunity to let kids do the talking and to just say hey parents. It’s okay. Just ask the question and my partner Matt McCain who’s on the writing side of things had never talked to his daughter about this and she seems fine and he asked her he said hey, I’m working on this project. Is this are you thinking about suicide and she said no, but thank you for asking and at that point, we really knew that, you know kids are just waiting for us to talk to them about this and honestly Jack we set the goal early on our you know, you said a goal in a campaign when you start working on it. Our goal is to save a life. And so much of what we do in marketing is selling stuff and you know, it keeps us employed and it pays our mortgages and that’s important but this really felt like something where that metric motivated us from the very beginning to do something powerful and different and to accomplish that goal. So we really want to get the word out there and we’ve been pushing it just to get people if you’re listening, you know, talk to your team about this. They’re ready to talk about it. It’s not going to hurt them and we want to save that life. Yeah candy what has been the response on your end because as as Mike points out, I talked with so many Marketing Executives in their always talking about, you know, the funnel and being able to distill it down. It’s like well, if so many people engaged on the website or if they bought our product or x y z but this is a much harder thing to quantify but almost more meaningful in terms of maybe the quality of conversations that come out of it. Yeah, we have had so much. Outreach and interest in this Oregon State contacted us to talk about it. They have a 988 Challenge and it’s it’s just been an incredible outpouring and those of us that work at children are getting contacted by parents that say because of this ad I’ve talked to my child about it, you know, and that’s just you know, that’s fantastic. It’s that saving a life. It’s having the discussion and keeping the dialogue open. I mean, my kids are grown now but I had conversations with them about drugs and how to deal with it at a party when it was offered to you and sex and all but I would I never talked to them about suicide. And my son was highly anxiety and had him in the hospital for one episode, but it’s like it I was never a discussion point because I was fearful of even that word. And so desensitizing like Michael said is just so critically important to get it to be normal language. So that we can have this talk and that if someone is having those feelings, maybe they bring it up like it’s so distant. Um, so yeah, it’s just the response has been fantastic we have it is a PSA. We have given it topspin because of the outpouring. So yeah, you know the Oscar add that we bought we bought some Ott and some banner ads that kind of go along with it just to kind of get it out there and that has just proven to be really really successful. We’ve had media agencies willing to give us free radio. We didn’t even do a radio spot. We’ve had extensive support from other agencies that want to use it. And so if we can get this thing, you know sort of like franchise happy to do it. You know, it’s just such an important message to all of us that have worked on this campaign. I appreciate you giving it kind of a forward look there in terms of what it could look like, you know in the months and years to come Mike. I want to bring you back in the conversation because we’re running this during mental health awareness month and obviously a lot of different organizations and brands are running campaigns as they have for the past few years and it’s great kind of to Candy’s point that there is this greater destigmatization and being more sensitive around the issue in terms of maybe the care that’s giving with it instead of avoiding talking about the topic at hand. Where do you still see room for improvement? Because it’s one of those things that obviously I think my generation and younger probably are more open to it, but there is still this idea of like, oh, it’s the elephant in the room or we can’t talk about it or we have to talk about it in a certain way where from a marketing lens. Do you think we still have room to improve? Well, I think there has to be a willingness to kind of think outside of the box in the way that a lot of broadly the way that medical advertising happens. I think it can start to feel very same same and credit to candy and her team that they were really willing to do something that’s very different because in the world of suicide and and mental health topics, it does feel like everything that’s out. There is about that crisis moment when when things are really awful. Here’s what you should do call this number and I’m not saying that’s not important to get that message out there. But I think just the idea that mental health needs to be a topic that we just speak about in kind of normal times. Not not just when there’s a crisis but that comes something that we’re just speaking about in normal conversation. I think that that’s the big change that has to happen because you know, we are parenting kids now through a real, you know epidemic of anxiety and I Believe it’s in the world of you know, a third of kids are experiencing anxiety related issues. So this is a huge topic and and there’s just a lot of Doom and Gloom out there in the world and and and kids are feeling it. So we really need to talk to them. We need to make mental health a topic and I’m so glad you’re you’re airing this during a time when people work it’s gonna be top of mind for people. This is something we need to enter into normal conversation and it’s not going to cause any anxiety. It’s only going to alleviate and potentially find something that we didn’t even know was there so again credit to candy and the team to really see things in different way and there is a little bit of humor in this honestly, and I don’t know if there’s been humor in advertising in this space at all before but I mean it just you need to kind of lighten it up and be unafraid to confront it and just and just Dive Right In and help each other through tough times. There is one piece that really early on little has its own brought up and that was like there is so much about crisis and fear base material out there about, you know, High, you know first cause of death and teens and just like all this like very very scary stuff and there’s enough of that and there’s a place for it and this is a different way in that is like, okay. I know all the stuff is coming at me and it’s scary and all these statistics. What do I do? And that’s what this adds solves is what you can do immediately. And so we really like that aspect and doing it in that sort of presentation PowerPoint as a team would It just sort of fit all the all the pieces together in a really really well done piece. I appreciate you both documenting that and again talking as somebody who was kind of on that that pivotal generation where was talked about a little more and you know, I look back now I’ve talked about it plenty of times with my therapist where it’s like, oh yeah times were like you were a kid and you felt a certain way and it’s like well that’s just like and you get that kind of written off and it’s like, oh no that was processing anxiety or dealing with the right around you. It’s it’s very validating to just hear other people talking about a let alone saying oh and I experiencing something like that too where I kind of want to wrap the conversation is so I remember a couple years ago and they made 988 the number and there was this whole it’s it’s gonna be a lot easier to access. It’s much easier to remember it’s like 911 but they’re still our problems that persist in terms of its usage how it you know access issues all that sort of stuff. I want to ask you both just where we could see improvements on that. I know that this conversation is really centered a lot around prevention and being able to not get to that Christ. Moment. Where do you see room for improvement as it relates to 988 and maybe how we message around that too from different sectors in the industry. I think that 988 has a lot to offer. 988 should not be used for crisis. It should be used well before and messaging that differently. This is exact discussion. I had with my counterpart at Oregon state government and that is the stigma is that it is so associated with 911 that you know my child. I just you know, whatever found in the bedroom and I need to call 91988 versus hey, there’s these thoughts of heavy anxiety. How do I process that so there’s a lot of advice that comes along with 988 that isn’t crisis which I was not aware of so I think messaging more of 988 for a variety of needs is really important and that is not 988 or emergency room. Like those aren’t the options. The options are a lot deeper with with 988. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. I mean, I think that just highlights the need to pull the conversation forward, you know, wherever Are possible we can’t you know, it can’t just be crisis or nothing and there’s clearly a lot of work to do and that’s you know one 30 second or 60 second commercials is not going to solve that in any way shape or form but we can kind of put a crack in the wall of what’s preventing us from just talking about it and and being more open to it and destigmatizing it because we’re all on some, you know, Continuum of dealing with this whether it’s with their kids or selves and that’s just being you that’s just being human being I don’t think there’s any human being that doesn’t experience this on some level. So I’m glad we’re talking about it and and we’re really looking forward to doing more and and just love the leadership that children is shown and being willing honestly to kind of step out of the equation in a very brave way as a brand to not focus on, you know, necessarily having more patience, but preventing people from becoming patients in the first place which to me is real. Brand leadership and confidence and absolutely love that and so thrilled to be a part of it. Yeah. Definitely. It’s a very selfless approach and one that you’re both the organization should be commended for so I appreciate you both being on the show here obviously during a very powerful time in our industry where it’s more of these conversations are happening during a very powerful month as well. So I think you both and hopefully we can have you on the show again to talk about, you know, the the extension of this campaign doesn’t sound like we’re over it by any stretch. Yeah. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Nearly a year after Merck launched the first lawsuit against the federal government over the Inflation Reduction Act’s new Medicare negotiating power, a federal judge has tossed out two cases challenging the policy. In April, Judge Zahid Quraishi in New Jersey rejected Johnson & Johnson and Bristol Myers Squibb’s lawsuits against the Medicare negotiation provision, noting that the drug pricing reform was constitutional. J&J and BMS, which manufacture Xarelto and Eliquis, respectively, had argued in their lawsuits that the program infringed on their First and Fifth Amendments. But Quraishi noted in his opinion that participation in the negotiation program was voluntary. “Selling to Medicare may be less profitable than it was before the institution of the program, but that does not make J&J and BMS’ decision to participate any less voluntary,” he wrote. Drug pricing reform advocates argued the move was a win for patients. Merith Basey, executive director of Patients for Affordable Drugs, noted in a statement that the judge’s ruling QUOTE “demolishes the drug industry’s entire legal strategy – one fundamentally prioritizing profits over patients’ health and well-being.” But J&J, for one, plans to appeal the decision. A J&J spokesperson told CNBC that QUOTE “this is a disappointing ruling for patients and America’s leadership role in medical innovation.” —– Meanwhile, Sen. Bernie Sanders is continuing his probe into the pharma industry over high drug costs. This time, he’s investigating Novo Nordisk’s high prices for its blockbuster weight loss drugs, Ozempic and Wegovy. In a letter to Novo Nordisk CEO Lars Fruergaard Jorgensen, Sanders pointed out that the monthly cost of Ozempic in the U.S. reaches as high as $969 while it’s just $59 in Germany. Wegovy, meanwhile, is priced at up to $1,349 a month in the U.S and is significantly less in other countries. In the letter, Sanders acknowledged Novo Nordisk’s scientists deserved great credit for developing the drugs – but that QUOTE “they will not do any good for the millions of patients who cannot afford them.” He added that they could potentially QUOTE “bankrupt Medicare, Medicaid and our entire health system.” Sanders, who leads the Senate HELP committee, is asking Jorgensen to respond to questions about the GLP-1 drugs’ patents, R&D expenses and revenues. I’m Lecia Bushak, Senior Reporter at MM+M. and is the part of the broadcast when we segue over to what’s trending in healthcare this week Lesha. You want to take the first item here. Sure. So boring or engelheim has set up yet another walk through installation that aims to show how people with schizophrenia live and experience illness. It’s called look Beyond stable and it’s a live exhibit here in New York City that’s designed to allow people to walk through different rooms the visually show the symptoms and experiences of schizophrenia. I attended the installation yesterday and had a chance to walk through the rooms and it was pretty powerful. They paid really close attention to details like even the fridge and the kitchen having rotting food inside the bedroom was messy and dark and showed a person lying in bed under the cover. Is there are also like audio and visual effects that simulated what it’s like to hear voices or see hallucinations that are markers of the illness and I got a chance to speak with Michelle Hammer who has schizophrenia herself and is a patient advocate. She told me that the rooms really resonated with her and that they were inaccurate depiction of daily life with schizophrenia particularly the depression the isolation and the inability to handle daily tasks like showering or cleaning up. And she told me this type of Museum exhibit style experience is way more informative to the general public than a traditional campaign. I would love to see more things like this when it comes to mental health or schizophrenia in general. There’s like I said, like when I was first diagnosed with schizophrenia or of his first diagnosed with bipolar when I was 18 and then diagnosed because Financial 22, and I was 18 like they were like you’re bipolar here’s a pamphlet. I was like, thanks and there’s like a crying girl on the cover of it. Like this is really uplifting. I feel great. But if somebody, you know, if there was something that could like show me, you know, what my life could be would have a live like what it’ll look like anything uplifting names anything to understand more you could read a textbook. You could read a pamphlet you could read whatever you want. But when you see something was actually immersively art and you can actually visualize it in absorbit. It’s much Easy to understand and this is something that Boehner ingelheim has done in the past as well Jack. I know that you attended the installation in December. That was also about schizophrenia. How was that? Yeah. It was interesting to hear you talk about what that experience was like for you I went to theirs back at the start of December and it was really the first thing that I think hits you is looking at the scenes they set up into your point the state of disrepair and kind of had decrepit. Everything is is really what what jumps out. I remember that they had one of the things because I were looking at a messy scene you say okay. This makes sense if you’re living with the mental illness and maybe if you aren’t on medication or are receiving treatment that’s there to help you and get to this point. But the one thing that stuck out to me was why was there aluminum foil? Over the windows and they had a couple of Patient Advocates there and they said well that’s because of different aspects with the illness that you’re trying to block out the outside world or it can lead into paranoia and things like that and they were so canned and so willing to kind of dispel with this notion that schizophrenic people that live with schizophrenia are more violent or more erratic say than anybody else. There’s kind of this misconception that people have where it’s like, oh if you have this then you are somehow a danger to yourself and society and that’s not the case. And so but ring or Engel Haim is really trying to dispel with those Notions that are certainly outdated. I think they get reinforced in the media a lot and for people that aren’t as familiar, but if you have anybody in your family that lives with mental illness, you know, that that’s not always the case that’s not always an external or even an internal violence it is this it’s conditioned its own right? So I applaud them for for rolling it out and certainly coming back to the city. I know that they’ve talked about traveling across the country and even internationally and bringing these exhibits along people to Show people what the real world implications are for it. Mark want to get your thoughts on as well because I know bi is always one to kind of use art to advance their their points across. Yeah. I really love the museum exhibit style experience and you know because it allows a window to experience in this case schizophrenia oneself and you can really appreciate as you pointed out both of you that how mental health really takes over a person’s life and you know, just, you know, kind of from a general marking point of view. I know a lot of marketers use immersive displays aimed at Healthcare professionals things like booths and medical congresses or what people in the business refer to as product theater’s which is the name implies are kind of like glorified promotional presentations, perhaps of the little entertainment value thrown in but they may sometimes forget that this kind of tactic can be very effective with the general public as well. And in motion is the most powerful tactic and marketing remember Of people like to quote Maya Angelou who said I’ve learned that people will forget what you said. They may forget what you did but people will never forget how you made them feel and that was clearly the case here really kind of brings it home from an emotional standpoint about what these people go through and both leche and jack it really made an impression on you guys. Absolutely. I always appreciate being able to see something in person see something that effective and I actually just pulled up my article from when I covered it back in December and the campaign was look Beyond stable. I remember that was such a key part of the conversation. I spoke with a executive from Boeing engelheim, which was the whole idea of like, it’s not just bringing a patient back up to what we consider stable or quote unquote normal, which I know is still a kind of touchy word there. But this whole idea of like it’s giving people their lives back it’s giving people that control and being able to say that hey regardless what you’re living with you are still going to be a functional member of society and somebody that doesn’t need to be cast aside because they have a mental illness as I mean, there’s 24 million people. Estimated that live with schizophrenia. So it’s one of those things where it’s like more often than not you probably know somebody or know of somebody that is living with this condition and it’s not one of those things where it’s like, oh, let’s just laugh it off or make that remark like, oh what a Skittle moment or something. Like these are real people that have real lived experiences. And this is giving you kind of that eyeball into what that world. Looks like. Absolutely. I mean if you walk away as you both did and say I have more an awareness over this more of an appreciation of this then, you know job well done by veterans. So that was terrific Jack what you got next. So the next one is kind of a sad story, but it’s one that I want to emphasize because we are in the middle of agency 100 season. We’re putting together all these profiles and our friends over at click had released a American Cancer story, which is on YouTube. It’s got over more than three million views. It’s been covered in a lot of major mainstream media outlets and the whole PSA is about a little girl who overcome cancer Windsor cancer battle go. Back to school only to face a school shooting in America. I really think we should have been able to be both. While those kind of very dystopian views of America that really Rings true at a time where there has been so much violence, especially in in schools. I know we’re coming up on what will be I think the second anniversary of the Uvalde shooting down in Texas and it’s clicks way of saying we need to highlight. This is not only cancer being the number three cause of death among children teens in the US but gun violence is number one and it’s one of those things that you know Columbine was only I say only was 25 years ago just a few weeks ago. I was a 25th anniversary of the Columbine shooting and we haven’t gotten any better. You know, I I was raising an environment where Virginia Tech happened Newtown. You name it. You name the state you name the situation. There was a shooting as it relates to schools and click is using this ad and a lot of press to be able to go out there and talk about it. It’s been posted on social media by members of Maroon 5 by doing what the celebrity gossip site by Aloe Blacc the singer. And covered on CNN. It’s really gotten a lot of Groundswell of support and attention and it’s a really important cause I want to bring it up on the show because one of our PR contacts at flagged it for us and I thought it was more meaningful to have a full-fledged conversation on here. So I want to get both of your thoughts on on this effort from click. Yeah. I I got a chance to watch it. It’s a short video but it’s, you know, very effective at getting the point across. It’s pretty bleak and depressing when you watch it. But you know, it’s it’s very impactful. You know, I don’t think I even I was aware that gun violence is actually the number one cause of death among children. So it’s pretty Stark to see that, you know after kind of watching this girl’s cancer story seeing her actually facing the number one leading cause of death among kids when she returns to school is sort of this like, oh wow, very impactful moments. I think it also kind of hits on this idea that we have been talking about gun violence as a public health issue more often. And that really needs to be you know, elevated to a national conversation and I think this really kind of ties into that and you know, hopefully it will you know, spur some kind of change. Yeah, I think your points well taken their Lush of the idea that we’ve started to reframe The Narrative after these kind of being oh these random instances of violence or it’s it’s got to be video games or something else and it’s like no this is something that is actually impacting people you obviously if you die and a shooting that’s the worst case scenario, but, you know people live with the mental trauma and the physical wounds that come with being shot at by a semi-automatic or an automatic rifle. You can’t even imagine what that does to your body Mark. I want to bring you in here too because this is obviously something that we’ve started to see more and more in terms of campaigns over the past few years focusing whether it’s from Brady or from different creative organizations saying we need to talk about this and not shy away this whole idea that oh, well, it’s it’s not the right time for this conversation. It’s unfortunately always the right time. America yeah, yeah, you know that this Harkens back to your interview Jack with the folks from Seattle Children’s and little hands of stone the PSA. You know now I know why suicides the number two cause of death and kids because this is the number number one. I know a lot of creators have attempted to draw attention to gun violence. Some of you didn’t want awards at our show, but this is one of the most impactful I’ve seen I think because of this topping power and the pointed question of the End by the girl, you know, I thought we would have been able to solve this by now again a kid having a Frank talk with the adults in the room and you know, hope they’re listening but as you point out Jack, you know, 25 years after Columbine and you know, we still have events that you’ve all the I also remember the Virginia Tech and Newtown shooting stars. But this shows that this is getting traction, you know, like all these musical groups and celebrities who are reposting this, you know, the kids have a certain Purity, you know, and what they say, you know at the mouths of babes, you know comes true with a lot of the times that Adults need to hear and so I like the way that they’re kind of framing this through a kid’s lands and you know the framing like it’s a cancer story and comparing it to that as all the more kind of creative and surprising so good on them. Yeah. Definitely. I think one of the things that stands out about it is this idea that you know, you know, we’ve had so much Cutting Edge research and so many Cutting Edge solutions to cancer which is this incredibly complex disease that we’ve haven’t been able to quite find a cure for yet. And we’re able to treat kids and they’re able to become cancer-free yet. We haven’t found a solution to something that is preventable, which is gun violence in schools. So, I think that that kind of Stark comparison also kind of stands out to me and I’ll make I not gonna lay my politics out here, but I will make a more pointed note on what election just brought up there that the amount of research and money and effort that has gone into cancer research in the oncology space. We are starting to see the payoff there in terms of different cancers not being a death sentence and we’ve talked to a bunch of marketers that’s kind of reframing of the cancer and narrative and I am going to sit here and my lofty little pedestal and say we have it done the same as it relates to gun violence. We haven’t done the same in terms being able to actually put the money and the resources and the effort to stop what we know the problem to be and whoever that is in terms of stakeholders certainly on the federal and the state level needs to hear that and acknowledge that because like I said, I’ve lived my entire life under the shadow of school shootings. I’m going to bring children into the school. Old and I know that at this pace that’s not going away anytime soon because we’re not taking the action that we need. So let this PSA and let my two cents thrown on top of it be whatever sort of rallying cry we need to get the action that we need done came into that. All right, so we’re going from gun violence not to make yeah, let’s end on what’s on a happy note. That’s a little bit of a happier. Now, we’ve talked about schizophrenia and we’ve talked about gun violence and cancer Chipotle who I think most in our audience know from their wonderful fast casual burritos and burrito bowls and overpriced guacamole is launching a micro site to support Healthcare professionals throughout the month acp’s can enter to win a free burrito ecard starting from We’re recording this on Tuesday. It’s started yesterday on Monday through the end of the week. At the end of National Nurses Week, which we are celebrating this week 100,000 Healthcare professionals who will be entered who entered will be randomly selected to receive an email to verify their employment status and then they can win burrito starting the week of May 13. This is all part of Chipotle’s 1 million dollar pledge to supply hcps with free food. The brand said in a press release that they’ve gone away more than 5 million dollars in free Chipotle to Health Care Professionals and I can say as somebody that went multiple times in college to the Chipotle up in Kingston New York wearing a Halloween costume to get a free burrito. This is probably more meaningful and impactful so good on Chipotle for supporting hcp’s I won’t ask you guys what your favorite order is, but I do want your thoughts on this promotion. Yeah. I know I think healthcare workers got a lot of well-deserved attention during the covid-19 pandemic know in 2020. There was a lot of you know, applauding Frontline workers and kind of you know, they were sort of in the spotlight, but I feel like in the last few years. Not the covid is kind of in the rearview mirror and people kind of forget forgetting about it. And it’s sort of like people have covid fatigue. You know, the work of Health Care Providers has also kind of Fallen to the Wayside, but we know that physician burnout rates continue to be incredibly High still so that’s an issue that persists. So, you know, I think it’s great that chipotle is putting them back in the spotlight a little bit. I don’t know if a free burrito will necessarily solve the burnout issue, but at least they’re kind of keeping them in mind which is important. And another thing. I just want to bring up before I bring Mark into this conversation is I think an important aspect of this is that you can also help out if you’re not a healthcare professional Chipotle is going to be matching 10% of designated Healthcare Heroes e-gift card purchases donating to the American nurses foundation, and they’re also going to do the Roundup for Real Change feature on the Chipotle app and on to support the organization so through the end of this week customers can round up their change the nearest to the next highest dollar amount on either the app or on their website and that will go to support nurses across the United States which again to let’s just point they need all the support that they can get after these years of going through pandemic and Frontline challenges and the burnout and all the trauma the one of us along with that I would encourage anybody. And the fact that we’re recording this during lunch is only making me that much more hungry so indeed and you know, seeing as I’m the only thing standing between us and lunge I’ll keep my remarks brief, but it was reading some statistic recently about burnout amongst Physicians about 63% of doctors report feeling burned out. That’s as of 2023 and more than 400 doctors die by Suicide each year. So it’s still a big problem one in five or 20% plan on leaving the medical profession entirely and there’s already a doctor shortage. So and you know, some of the I know there’s been work by some in our industry to draw attention to this and one of the insights that I read was, you know, people generally don’t have a lot of sympathy for health care providers. It’s like, oh you’re feeling burnout. Well, you know go crying your BMW or something, but it is a real issue as pointed out Jack during the pandemic and Alliance mention that as well. And so this underscores that, you know, we only needed a doctors and it’s something nice you can do a nice gestures. This is a good one before I wrap. I just want to mention one of the thing. I wanted to thank you both for your lovely words on last week’s podcast. I was exceedingly touched by it. Especially the fact that it came from two people. I work with every day and who are amazing in their own rights. I just wanted to thank you both and I wasn’t here to embarrass me. So it’s all good. Okay. Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of the MM+M Podcast. Be sure to listen to next week’s episode when we’ll be joined by Joyce Ercolino, dir of digital excellence and CX at Harmony Biosciences.